Anyone else find song mode useless?

I'm a long time MPC user (since 86). After about a month, I gave up on song mode entirely. I tried it again when I got the 4k but still found it useless. I find it easier to copy and paste into my original sequence as I write along. It seems to make the songwriting process more linear and natural than having to stop and build a song from sequences. It also seems easier. You can use the loop and punch features to work on any segment as if it were a stand alone sequence; record at any point in your sequence instead of exiting song mode, locating the sequence you need to edit, preforming the edit, and then it's back to song mode for a listen. All that just seems like extra work to me. Not to mention, you'll probably convert the whole darn thing back to a sequence in the end anyway. IS there some feature to the the song mode that I'm missing?

i use song mode to chain tracks together real fast and for when im recording. Its convient when u have say 2 four bar seqs, and u want to make one 8 bar seq. But it reallys helps while ur multiracking so u dont have to worry bout screwing it up if you use it in realtime. I dont record alot though so i dont really use it.

I havent used it much, but when I did, it seemed like a good way to experiment with arrangements. I prefer just to play around in the mute and seq modes, but when it needs to be tracked out to pt, song mode seems like the best way to chain the loops up together. it's also nice that it's sort of non-destructive, so if you change your original sequence the change is reflected in the song mode, or if you want to change it up, it's easy too. but whatever works for you!

When I do a full on track (not just a beat loop), I use Song Mode each and every time.
The key for me is: a pad of paper and a pen.

I map out the song on paper, and assign pattern numbers to each part of the song. Then I can copy the main loop into many other patterns, and do little variations on each one - like different fills for each part of the song.

Then if something needs to be changed, you only have to tweak one pattern, or substitute another pattern in.

But as far as keeping it all straight in your head....it's all about the pen and paper.
That's just the way I do it.

itchyvinyl wrote:When I do a full on track (not just a beat loop), I use Song Mode each and every time.
The key for me is: a pad of paper and a pen.

I map out the song on paper, and assign pattern numbers to each part of the song. Then I can copy the main loop into many other patterns, and do little variations on each one - like different fills for each part of the song.

Then if something needs to be changed, you only have to tweak one pattern, or substitute another pattern in.

But as far as keeping it all straight in your head....it's all about the pen and paper.
That's just the way I do it.

Co-Sign (except no pad & pen)

At first I had the same experience as Fader-Pro, then Later on I began messing with it and I use it every time. he way you work sounds interesting tho Fader-Pro, but like has been said song mode in non destructive and the muting and unmuting of tracks on different copies of sequences I find faster than erasing sections or setting velocity to zero for all notes in a section, which would take longer but at least you could undo.

Song mode has a lso taught me many things about songwriting, the time it takes is great for reflection.

One thing I never use is convert song to a sequence cuz it doesn't follow the muting.

But I hear you, at first I wasn't feeling song mode, and I can see it not being the preferred method, but it's great that MPCs let you work in so many ways to get the same thing done.

elmac, if you convert to song mode, the track mute still works, as long as every sequence has the sounds on the same track (track one always is the hi hat, track two is always the snare, etc.). thats how it is on the 2k at least.

i flowers with song mode for about half of my tracks, it depends on how i feel on that day i guess lol. A lot of the time ill be like "flowers it ill just record it into my multitracker doing track mutes, then ill properly sequence it in song mode around the artists lyrics later", but then i end up keeping the original track mute version if its hot that way.

fader-pro wrote:I'm a long time MPC user (since 86).

WHOA, you were using MPC's 2 years before the first one came out.

One thing is that I do hardly any muting and unmuting...I'll build 8 bars of bass and drums then copy into bars 9-16. I'll then add a keyboard or groove type part to bars 8-16. I then have 2-8bar segments, one without keys. I may then create a third and fourth 8 bar segment, perhaps one of these is the "chorus". It's pretty easy to delete the bass and create a new bass line for the chorus simply by recording over it. Once I've created these "vanilla" tracks (Basic Rythm with no fills etc) I'll create a copy of all 32 bars (Verse, verse, chorus, bridge) You have the option to create mutiple copies all at once and insert into the end of the sequence. I simply insert say 5 copies of the 32bar setup and the basic structure of the song is done. At that point I'll go in and add the drum fill at the end of each 8 bar segment. This way each fill is different because it's played in "live". It's also just as easy to add your solos and specialty samples "on the fly" this way. Finally I may insert 4 blank bars at the front for an intro or perhaps blank bars in the middle for a break. Since I've been using the 4000 the undo feature resolves the "non-destructive editing delima" but I did the same thing with the 60 in loop mode. If I didn't like I just wouldn't save it. Also if there is a big screw up you can still reload the original from disk. It's just more like the process of writing I used before the MPC's came along...Whenever I used song mode it was distracting for me to have my song in pieces like that....

dstruction wrote:elmac, if you convert to song mode, the track mute still works

I think he meant converting a song to sequence. If you do that, the MPC references all Track on/off's, velocitys, names, etc. to the first sequence in the song. So if track 12 is OFF, then all track 12's will be muted in every sequence. I only use the convert to sequence once in a while.

I use song mode almost everytime im on my mpc

Is it that way on the Xl as well? that does make it somewhat useless to me.

I hear you fader pro, it sounds like a great way of working.

i work with 4 bar loops
i rmx the loops a dozen times in song mode (rearrange the order)
i love this workflow
tho if you record a lot, linear mothod is the better option i think

elmacaco wrote:Is it that way on the Xl as well? that does make it somewhat useless to me.

I hear you fader pro, it sounds like a great way of working.

i dunno if you cats use this, but on the 2kxl when it asks u to convert a song to seq, if you scroll to track status and then set it to merged on midi ch., it just throws the whole seq into one track. But its not using your seq tracks so 1a is still free. U cant change anything but its like when u want a final print of the song. I dont use the other settings ref ti 1st seq and off tracks ignored, cause u lose tracks, but the other way it just renders everything to one channel so no tracks at all.

BassLINE wrote:

fader-pro wrote:I'm a long time MPC user (since 86).

WHOA, you were using MPC's 2 years before the first one came out.

1986 was when I first laid hands on an MPC 60 before that the Linn 9000