whats the secret??

dj e.d.e wrote:i've been watching these beat making vids and all the ones i've watch'd all of them they only show you how to make a beat, thats the easy part,

i've made some beats like that ,that sound fire when your just putting sounds together like that. what they don't show is how they take that beat and sequence it out to make a song out of it , there's the real secert they don't ever want to show that,sequencing is the key to making a hit fire record,

like i said i've done some dope ass beats on the first sequence, but when it come down to sequencein it out that changes the hole thing, am i wrong or is this not the secret to beat making, and thats why these cats don't show how to sequence out tracks cause thats there talent , it's not really about puttin sounds over sounds(layering) it about the sequenceing in the song that makes it hot.

what do you guy's think , is this the secret to making a hiphop or any beat for that matter.
sequencing was really not that big till the 80's thats when i remeber hearing about this sequencing thing,
yeah my sequencing is not the greatest but i'm working on it and trying to figure out what makes for good sequencing,,


give some thoughts on this or some tips on sequncing ,

peace

I agree... the easy part is to make the loops, but to know how to break up the monotony and keep the ear interested is where the true talent comes in......


what you would want to do though, is take your 4 or 8 bar loops and change them up slightly at the ends...drop some sounds, add some sounds, change the drum pattern, etc etc....

guesswhosback wrote:u jus need to find your own winning formula

the only way you can do this is practice

over and over till u understand what works and where it works

=

realest shit I've ever seen on this site......

somtin dat help me out is da listenin to odder peeps songz. i even gotme a binder and in der i keep notes. i count da measuerz of each of de songz dat i like. and i go... ok... 2 bar intro... 8 bar hook etc. i even mark out de break downz. ur a dj so dis sh!t should be eazy 4 u. now my tracks dont end up like in da club etc but maybe it start out with it kind of development. timbaland... watch out for dat nikak. he be like craazy.

ur a dj so dis sh!t should be eazy 4 u.

yeah i hear that alot but when your djing it's already made and it 's easier to mix in and out of those tracks, then to try to produce your own tracks and try to make them sound easy to mix in and out of with out sounding so like a puzzle with peices that dont quiet fit snug, you know the mix is choppy or loose, no i dont mean because of the mastering ,

this is what i do , i make my first couple sequences and try to mix a record along with my track, now i get it matched up to a certain point and then the change up or the hook just throws it off, put's me out in left field somewhere, does that make sence. but i'm going to have to try doin this bars thing i really like to use 2-4 bars sequences, so i will hav to change this to better my productions.

See... this is what I'm talking about... People sharing knowledge on this forum without the do a search and RTFM.
People asking questions and getting knowledge from other MPC Fam.
Good info ya'll! Cheers mates!

dj e.d.e wrote:Writing down the best compositional parts of your favorite songs and describing their function in tracks. And then seeing how you can put them together in the form of a new song.

i think i get your point it sounds like that involes choppin as some one above said , choppin and arranging them to your likings ;right?

Nah, you draw out the layers of tracks according to instrument or sound into layers so you can see the composition of these parts. Then you can put them together in new ways, but drawing it out makes it more flexable for you to edit to your liking and makes it so you mind can obsorb it better.

Make a template for your songs once you have a general idea of where you want to take it after you get your first basic sequence together.

when you say template you mean like verse, chorus,hook so on as some one mention that

tremplate: functional layout of a whole song including all parts.

Its better not to lable the parts at all when you start and make a template, because you dont want to limit your creativity to the idea or concept of verse, hook, and so on. Just think in a general sense where the original sequence would fit, it can be thought of being placed in any part or multiple. Remember that you want the pieces fit together based on the sounds and their movement and not the idea of what part of the song your creating. Let the song tell its own story and show itself to you. Concieve it.

Once I get the shape of the track writen out and what I want to do where, I find all of the additional sounds I need to complete the other unmade sequences in the template.

ok i do this but when you do it do you do it from the same song you sampled the first part from or do you look for another sound from a different song, i try to keep my sounds different so it dont sound like the original song i sampled from, you kno, maybe thats what i need to do is try sampling different sounds from the same song.

The key is not to sample from an individual record but to sample by instrument or sound. Say for example I sample a sax from one record that use in my orignal sequence. I will then go and sample every sax in every note that I can find, so then I can make a program/kit for the sax that can be pieced together to form and suit all the different parts of the composition. Best of all the program/kit is reusable and becomes a usable file folder thats great for archiving individual instruments.


threshed~

That's can take a LOT of time. Personally, I can't just turn on the MPC and make a hot beat. Even if I know how I want a beat o sound, I have to find the sounds first, and even when I do find a snare that's close to what I have in my head, now I may have to resample it MANY times, at many different rates, and stack it with other sounds to get colse to what I want. I have to do this with all my sounds. I can't take a stock kick from a sample cd without altering it in some kind of way. I may play around with kicks, snares, hats, bass's for HOURS and STILL no create somethting that I like. Could you imagine recording this whole process? You would be bored out your mind. So instead of boring you, I'd simply show you how to create the track after I've gone through all the preliminary b.s. That's why you don't see the whole process.. it's no secret, it just takes too much time.

EDE I KNOW U Got ALOT OF VINYL...........................


AND One OF MY Methods........(DON'T LAUGH THIS WORKS)



Listen to the OLDER ARTIST......................



SOME EXAMPLES ARE...........


Fleetwood MAC
Steely DAN
Seals n Croft
Chicago

Then Study their Measures..............

the Intro the Verses the Choruses the Bridges if there is one and then Outro..............


But Don't STOP THERE LISTEN TO THE Methods Used to Make those TRANSITIONS BETWEEN EACH SECTION........................

THIS SHOULD HELP......................

and You Could also GOOGLE THE SECTIONS...............
and LOOK FOR TIPS OR TUTORIALS..............


.. .. ..

^^good point.

I dont care what anyone says! 90% of hiphop joints are straight 2 bar loops. Really they are! BUt i think i know what you are talking about. ITs subtleties that make em hot or make em not seem like 2 bar loops.

Try these:

1. Groove has alot to do with a track. If youre grooving you get less sick of a 2 bar loop. Listen to dr.dre **** you(chronic 2001).

2.Think about how your sounds interact with each other.........i.e. pocket. Call and response. This keeps your ear entertained. Listen to dr.dre's explosive.


3. Tonic composition. This is satisfaction you get when you hear the contrast between notes/chords. usually the last note leads to the first (where it loops). Basically how chord progressions are designed where the first chord leads to the next, then to the next, so on so forth, and the final chord satisfies the first.

ALot of times the same feeling is in the melody too. the first note of the melody is also the last note.

4. The science of dropping in and out instruments. maybe dont introduce an instrument until later in the song or until the chorus. Try adding background strings during the chorus to fill in gaps and make it sound fuller, or to change the vibe of the chord progression. Listen dr.dre the watcher. Introduce a counter melody during the chorus, etc. Use another insturment that parrellels a vocal part, etc.

5. Mixing. Panning. Depth. Atmosphere. Sonically making things pleasant. Getting desired effect from instruments, etc. For example: Some reverb on a hihat makes it sound more interesting.

6. Fills. Every 4 bars break down the drums. Or change the rhythme every 8 bars. Dont just think of fills as "drums fills" you can do the same with instruments too. Listen to some Just blaze tracks. He will loop a 2 bar for 7 bars and on the 8th bar hell change up the rhythm like make it stutter, etc.

7.patterns. chop a 2 bar loop and make it into 4 bars. Maybe repeat the first half 3 times then finish it with the second part on the last bar, etc. like this: instead of a-b-a-b-a-b over and over.......try a-a-a-b a-a-a-b

8. combine differant size loops. try 2bar loops with 4 bar loops and 8 bar loops....using the 4 and 8 bars too extend the repetative 2bar. Some parts are gonna be repetative.

FOr example. Make your drums loop 2 bars add a fill every 8. Loop your main melody 2 bars. Make your chord progression 4 bars. add background synth 4 bars, etc.

more simplely put: if you got a hot 2 bar loop......add a background synth over 4 bars; even though the melody is looping twice over that 4 bars, it seems longer because of the 4 bar synth. Kinda like dr.dre's famous "whistle-wormy lead" Use it to connect the bars.

9. Subliminal changes. If you add random sound effects in the background it keeps the ear entertained. For example: gun shot, reverse symbol. scratching. a countermelody that appear like once or twice in the song.

10. vocal changes. Change in vocal rhythm. alliterations. Vocal bridge to chorus. Background vocals in chorus. Maybe some reverb during the chorus, double up voice.

11. hihat changes. 1/8th notes during chorus, 16ths during verse, etc. Maybe drop the hihat druing chorus, etc.

thanks guys i think i'm getting an idea ,it's starting to develop in my head cyrus you really open it up for me ,yeah like yoyu said use 2 with with 8 bars cause like i said i use 2 bars alot so you given me some idea of where i can change my sequences , mpc 4000 thats a great tip too, cause i listen to a lot on classic rock and i hear youy on

Study their Measures..............

the Intro the Verses the Choruses the Bridges if there is one and then Outro..............


But Don't STOP THERE LISTEN TO THE Methods Used to Make those TRANSITIONS BETWEEN EACH SECTION

cause i've been doing it you just open my ear's to what i should be listen too more instead of drum pattern, thanks fam for the helpfull tips .

Dope thread. Def some good tips. I'm big on studying the old school. I miss the days of GOOD music...

but if you dont know how to really change it up you might run into some problems..

this is a HUGE problem in hip hop music. the beats NEVER PROGRESS. never. a producer may play with track mutes and stuff but there aren't any switchups. frankly it's turned me away from 90% of the producers out there right now. yeah, some of em are dope as hell--but once you hear the same dopeass 8 bars maybe thirty goddamn times you are sick of it and need something different.

do NOT BE AFRAID OF CHANGE. if your rapper can't keep up with beats that switchup, maybe he's not good enough. maybe you should tell him to rap about something other than how good he is at rapping.

See... this is what I'm talking about... People sharing knowledge on this forum without the do a search and RTFM.
People asking questions and getting knowledge from other MPC Fam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

yeah but real knowledge not just regurgiatated manual pages or anything like that....why read someones manual for them when they paid over £500 for the gera they are not willing to learn? why start a thread which has the same info/opinions as two other threads?

so im more likely to give an answer to ' how do you get your groove' over 'how do you set swing'

im more than happy to share techniques but if its something they should already know (like the functions on the mpc) or if its something they would have got from the archives then ill 'rtfm' them as i find that you need to do the ground work yourself-

of course ive ansked newbie questions before but also spent an inordinate amount of time learning about it all for myself, therefore ive built my own foundation and can now go to the next level and get in serious exchanges involving techniques

and i personally enjoyed the whole process, any serious wannabe beatmaker will do too as its allowing them to improve at what they love...anyone not interested in doing the work isn't a serious beat maker- however much money they just spent at digital village

greg

Song structure is def. worth discussing like this, playing with the layout of the song is part of the fun. Although the repetative nature of hip hop beats may be from the nature of african ritual songs where the rhthm stays roughly the same but varies in intensity, and the major changes are in the chants.



Amen to you comments Dub.

Antonym wrote:this is a HUGE problem in hip hop music. the beats NEVER PROGRESS. never. a producer may play with track mutes and stuff but there aren't any switchups. frankly it's turned me away from 90% of the producers out there right now. yeah, some of em are dope as hell--but once you hear the same dopeass 8 bars maybe thirty goddamn times you are sick of it and need something different.

This is why I still love the production of the late '80s.......stuff like De La Soul, Public Enemy, Jungle Brothers, Stetsasonic, early Ice Cube, Beasties (Pauls Boutique), etc.
The arrangements and song structures were way more creative.