Spot the MPC60

elmacaco wrote: Listening to a recording of a stradivarious Violin next to a yamaha violin you might not be able to tell which is which, but the person playing them will tell you immediately.

Interesting point I hadn't thought of.

max1973 wrote:Suggestions are welcome.

... get a 4k - real deal right there ... chances to become the official gearslut in here would arise tremendoussiy ...

as for the rest of the test: maybe some more drums sampled full level straight from vinyl in all you got ... and maybe somethin other than drums if you up to ... what about some strings or some orchestra? well, anythin is welcome - this is dope ...

... as is distructions avater ... watched that shyt for some mins -man i m almost cryin ... it hurts .. . LOOL

elmacaco wrote: Listening to a recording of a stradivarious Violin next to a yamaha violin you might not be able to tell which is which, but the person playing them will tell you immediately.

But does it really matter if the musician can tell???? He is STILL going to rock that schit anyways.....Give Jimi Hendrix a beginner pack guitar from GC, he'll make that schit sound like a million dollars.....Give Ray Charles a Yamaha keyboard from Walmart.....He will still rock it like Ray Charles....It's about the man, not the equipment....

Boogie Man wrote:

elmacaco wrote: Listening to a recording of a stradivarious Violin next to a yamaha violin you might not be able to tell which is which, but the person playing them will tell you immediately.

But does it really matter if the musician can tell???? ....It's about the man, not the equipment....

Yes, it is about the man..........but the man needs to be comfortable with and inspired by his instrument. I think that was El's point.


I'm a drummer, and I can tell the difference between two kits if I sit down at them.
The one that I'm most comfortable with will allow me to play at my best, and will inspire cool things out of me.

But does it really matter if the musician can tell? He is STILL going to rock that schit anyways.....Give Jimi Hendrix a beginner pack guitar from GC, he'll make that schit sound like a million dollars.....Give Ray Charles a Yamaha keyboard from Walmart.....He will still rock it like Ray Charles....It's about the man, not the equipment....

It matters to the musician, and if you're a musician, you do care.

As for your other statements regarding Jimi and ray, I'll have to take your word for it, cuz I've never heard them sound great on cheap gear, seeing them at all would be a privilage, but I'm doubting you ever saw them rock cheap gear and it is pure conjecture.

You are still looking at it from the perspective of the audience. Jimi hendrix went through a bunch of Wah wah's from the same company before he picked the one he wanted. He could have used a lefty strat after he got big but he preferred the righty one backwards for more than just a trademark look (it has to do with the rear pick up and tremelo arm position) Sure he could have done it with a les paul or whatever, but as a musician, he had a preference. In fact you rarely saw him with any variation in his set up, which might lead one to say that part of his skill as a guitarist was knowing what worked for what he was after.

that is what people talk about when it comes to gear, a musician's preference, most musician's I know have preferences and many of those preferences have an effect on their performance.

now i assume when I come here I am talking with other musicians, but with the MPC series being so popular with DJ's and beginners, dare i say wanna be's, many people are more along the lines of musical consumers, and on that aspect i feel you, where people act like the right purchase will make their music better without puttin anytime into practicing any skills. In that regard a lot of time is wasted.

it;s all summed up in this statement

you can't escape that the musician's experience counts, not just the listeners experience.

elmacaco wrote:

But does it really matter if the musician can tell? He is STILL going to rock that schit anyways.....Give Jimi Hendrix a beginner pack guitar from GC, he'll make that schit sound like a million dollars.....Give Ray Charles a Yamaha keyboard from Walmart.....He will still rock it like Ray Charles....It's about the man, not the equipment....

It matters to the musician, and if you're a musician, you do care.

As for your other statements regarding Jimi and ray, I'll have to take your word for it, cuz I've never heard them sound great on cheap gear, seeing them at all would be a privilage, but I'm doubting you ever saw them rock cheap gear and it is pure conjecture.

You are still looking at it from the perspective of the audience. Jimi hendrix went through a bunch of Wah wah's from the same company before he picked the one he wanted. He could have used a lefty strat after he got big but he preferred the righty one backwards for more than just a trademark look (it has to do with the rear pick up and tremelo arm position) Sure he could have done it with a les paul or whatever, but as a musician, he had a preference. In fact you rarely saw him with any variation in his set up, which might lead one to say that part of his skill as a guitarist was knowing what worked for what he was after.

that is what people talk about when it comes to gear, a musician's preference, most musician's I know have preferences and many of those preferences have an effect on their performance.

now i assume when I come here I am talking with other musicians, but with the MPC series being so popular with DJ's and beginners, dare i say wanna be's, many people are more along the lines of musical consumers, and on that aspect i feel you, where people act like the right purchase will make their music better without puttin anytime into practicing any skills. In that regard a lot of time is wasted.

it;s all summed up in this statement

you can't escape that the musician's experience counts, not just the listeners experience.

cmon man....you know as well as anybody, that if you give a well trained musician a piece of crap instrument they can make the instrument sound better than someone with subpar skills would make it sound, hence the saying..."The man behind the machine, not the machine in front of the man"....

Well sayings don't define reality. I know the saying, and it's not entirely true. it is the musician yes, but the instruments have a lot to do with the great tone those musicians get as well. That's why stradivarius violins command millions. An uncle of mine once played one with pedigree, he said when he held it in his hands and spoke to comment how light it was, it resonated at the sound of his voice in a way he had never experienced before. I recently got to play a minimoog again and even the memory of it pales in comparison to the sound of a quality instrument.

A piece of shyt instrument wont necessarily sound good, I've played guitars that go out of tune with normal playing, I don;t care how good you are, it'll sound like shyt. Tone deaf people might not hear it but i play for my enjoyment as well.

Ever heard a high end mic through a high end preamp? Suddenly all this EQing and effects aren't needed, it sounds like a record right off the bat.

You cant say the instruments dont matter without qualifying it, to most listeners it won't matter, but to the player there is a difference. Man, if it wasn't for some instruments we wouldn't even have players. hammond organ is one. there were wurlitzer organs and lowrey organs around, but it was the hammond that inspired the players that it did, and people still lug the clunky things on tour because there just is no substitute for a real hammond player.

I know what you are trying to say Boogie, but you should say what you mean. something like 'most of you motherfukers straight up suck at this and should be worrying more about your skills than about what machine you need to take you to the next level.' which would be correct and I think is more along the lines of what you mean.

I have come across the argument so many times on the analog vs. VA thing that i see the central fallacy in the argument from the listener's perspective. I'm not the listener, I'm the player, and it matters to me what I am playing, certain instruments pull different things out of me, I respond differently to them and they respond differently to me, there is a connection between musician and instrument, and I'll play whatever's around, but when it comes down to spending my money and taking up space in my house, I know what I would rather play.

People would say that in a mix analog and digital can sound like each other if you program it right. Sure, but not when you are playing them side by side, and that's what i do, i play them, i program them, I don't experience them primarily as a listener, its as a player, so my concerns are those of a player.

I play a cheap upright bass sometimes, the strings are thick and it is hard to fret certain notes on it for me. i've played professional upright Basses costing thousands more than this one and the strings are closer to the neck, much easier to fret a note solidly, you can play them faster, not to mention the tone that comes off them, etc. Even an expert upright bassman is gonna have some buzzing and fretting issues on the cheap bass and say, 'what a piece of shyt' and when I play a good one, I seem like I know what I'm doing and can acomplish more than I can on the cheap one.

All instruments are not created equal.

elmacaco wrote:Well sayings don't define reality. I know the saying, and it's not entirely true. it is the musician yes, but the instruments have a lot to do with the great tone those musicians get as well. That's why stradivarius violins command millions. An uncle of mine once played one with pedigree, he said when he held it in his hands and spoke to comment how light it was, it resonated at the sound of his voice in a way he had never experienced before. I recently got to play a minimoog again and even the memory of it pales in comparison to the sound of a quality instrument.

A piece of shyt instrument wont necessarily sound good, I've played guitars that go out of tune with normal playing, I don;t care how good you are, it'll sound like shyt. Tone deaf people might not hear it but i play for my enjoyment as well.

Ever heard a high end mic through a high end preamp? Suddenly all this EQing and effects aren't needed, it sounds like a record right off the bat.

You cant say the instruments dont matter without qualifying it, to most listeners it won't matter, but to the player there is a difference. Man, if it wasn't for some instruments we wouldn't even have players. hammond organ is one. there were wurlitzer organs and lowrey organs around, but it was the hammond that inspired the players that it did, and people still lug the clunky things on tour because there just is no substitute for a real hammond player.

I know what you are trying to say Boogie, but you should say what you mean. something like 'most of you motherfukers straight up suck at this and should be worrying more about your skills than about what machine you need to take you to the next level.' which would be correct and I think is more along the lines of what you mean.

I have come across the argument so many times on the analog vs. VA thing that i see the central fallacy in the argument from the listener's perspective. I'm not the listener, I'm the player, and it matters to me what I am playing, certain instruments pull different things out of me, I respond differently to them and they respond differently to me, there is a connection between musician and instrument, and I'll play whatever's around, but when it comes down to spending my money and taking up space in my house, I know what I would rather play.

People would say that in a mix analog and digital can sound like each other if you program it right. Sure, but not when you are playing them side by side, and that's what i do, i play them, i program them, I don't experience them primarily as a listener, its as a player, so my concerns are those of a player.

I play a cheap upright bass sometimes, the strings are thick and it is hard to fret certain notes on it for me. i've played professional upright Basses costing thousands more than this one and the strings are closer to the neck, much easier to fret a note solidly, you can play them faster, not to mention the tone that comes off them, etc. Even an expert upright bassman is gonna have some buzzing and fretting issues on the cheap bass and say, 'what a piece of shyt' and when I play a good one, I seem like I know what I'm doing and can acomplish more than I can on the cheap one.

All instruments are not created equal.

I didn't even bother to read all of that.....You're missing the point.....Skills is skills man....Nobody needs a particular instrument or machine to display thier SKILLS....Thats what IM SAYING.......You're getting too deep into going on about "the sound"....thats not the basis for my part of the discussion at all.....Same as in La Bamba, Ritchie Valens had an amp that "looks like you dug that out of somebodys trash".....HE displayed his talents through someone elses garbage.....THAT is the point...When all is said and done, the SKILLS are what is going to be remembered....NOT the gear....Bobbo.....

OK, I can see where BOTH of you guys are coming from.



On one hand, if you don't have skills, it doesn't matter what instrument you play.....it'll all be sh!tty in the end.
True.


On the other hand.....if ONLY skills mattered, and the equipment truly doesn't matter.......then why aren't all the greatest players seen playing instruments that were pulled from the garbage? Why would someone spend hundreds/thousands on quality instruments if they played/sounded just as good on a cheap hunk of junk?



I think the ideal would be a certain amount of both.
The marriage between a skilled musician, and a quality crafted instrument is a beautiful thing.

Believe me, the relationship between a musician and his instrument IS truly a relationship. The happier the relationship = the better the output.

itchyvinyl wrote:OK, I can see where BOTH of you guys are coming from.



On one hand, if you don't have skills, it doesn't matter what instrument you play.....it'll all be sh!tty in the end.
True.


On the other hand.....if ONLY skills mattered, and the equipment truly doesn't matter.......then why aren't all the greatest players seen playing instruments that were pulled from the garbage? Why would someone spend hundreds/thousands on quality instruments if they played/sounded just as good on a cheap hunk of junk?



I think the ideal would be a certain amount of both.
The marriage between a skilled musician, and a quality crafted instrument is a beautiful thing.

Believe me, the relationship between a musician and his instrument IS truly a relationship. The happier the relationship = the better the output.

I fully agree....and I'm sure you agree with what I'm getting at...To each musician, it's all PREFERENCE...what suits each individual artists needs the best....which goes back to what I stated earlier....which goes even further to say that no one particular machine is better than the other....

Showing skills is one thing, playing music is another. I agree, you don't need gear to show your skills.

You should read it later. I understand your point, it would be nice if you returned the favor.

'El vivir, es dormir, el morir, es despertar'

The discussion is becoming philosophical...I think both Elmacaco and Boogie are making valid points. I tend to agree more with Elm, because the instrument is fundamental to the development of the musician, any classical musician will tell you that.

I play guitar (classical) since the age of 12, and started with a low budget student guitar. My teacher, when I reached a somewhat intermediate level, advised me of getting a better guitar because he said that at that point my student guitar was hindering my progress both sonically and technically. I did, and my playing just made a tremendous leap forward in every aspect. The reason was that I had already made that progress, but the cheap student guitar was holding me back. Any serious musician will tell you the same thing. Of course, I can play a shitty guitar, and with years of playing, I can make it sound decent, but that's not the point.

It's not about being a gear slut, it's fundamental to the experience of making music. Same is true with samplers in hip hop. The only difference is that most samplers are objectively good samplers (which is not true for guitars!). You only need to find the one that fits you well, whether that's an MPC4k, SP1200 or A4000.

I (once again) want to point one thing out: the SP start to sound in a very unique way once you start to tune the samples. A hihat sound can sound like a completely different sample sometimes.

Also a question to max: wasn´t the eq settings in this test done in a way that would make these boxes sound even? hence removing the eventual differences between the boxes and make them apear more like each other.

I (once again) want to point one thing out: the SP start to sound in a very unique way once you start to tune the samples. A hihat sound can sound like a completely different sample sometimes.

Also a question to max: wasn´t the eq settings in this test done in a way that would make these boxes sound even? hence removing the eventual differences between the boxes and make them apear more like each other.