"Using a mixer with the 8 outs gives a better sound then just the stereo outs."
I am not sure if I follow that. I can multi-track record with just the stereo outs (2 tracks at a time) and it sounds just like it did if I recorded 8 tracks at once. The 8-outs really only buys you time. You only have to do 1 or two passes instead of up to 10.
What is the cost of this? Well, if you are recording at home and did 10 songs in one year that had ten mono tracks (keep it simple) at 4 minutes long. With the 8-outs you spent 40 minutes recording. Without the 8 outs you spent 200 minutes recording the same material. You spent $240 to save 160 minutes. There are 525,600 minutes in a year. If you aks me, I would just pocket the $240 and spend the additional 3/1,000 of the year scratching my arse watching the transport counter go up.
However, the cost may be a little better if you need to take your MPC to a studio to record at $50/hr. If you can track it all in 40 minutes and spend only $50 with the 8-outs as opposed to spending $200 to track it in under 4 hours. In that case you spent $240 to save yourself $150 in the studio. Oh well.
I have always suggested that people buy the EB-16 before the 8-outs (see other threads for EB discussions). You can always get your music out of the MPC without the 8-outs since all you did was buy time. However, the EB can do things that it would take a rack of gear to do. In other words, not having an EB is more of a drastic effect than not having the 8-outs.
By mpc3000
Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:55 am
By elmacaco
Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:44 am
you're probably right, but if you multi track one by one through the stereo outs, then the summing mixer (a bit redundant!) isn't mixing. Your mixing is happening on the PC.
You take it out of the equation. I always use the 8 outs even in making beats, since you can eq and getting the better mixing.
I can only record 4 tracks at a time, so I watch plenty of transport action, although not as much as I should!
You take it out of the equation. I always use the 8 outs even in making beats, since you can eq and getting the better mixing.
I can only record 4 tracks at a time, so I watch plenty of transport action, although not as much as I should!
By mpc3000
Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:34 pm
"I always use the 8 outs even in making beats, since you can eq and getting the better mixing. "
You do have a valid point there, but here's some in return:
1) You can EQ with the EB-16
2) One could start with samples that do not need EQ'ing
3) Fix EQ once it is multitracked into the recorder
Granted that #2 may be a stretch for untrained ears, since they would not be able to listen to a single sample in PC sample editor and already know how it would fit in mix (after tens years, it is somewhat easier for me).
#3 may be the preferred (and I suggest that method whether you own the 8-outs or not) since EQ is destructive and one usually does not record heavily altered sounds initially into a recorder. Most record dry unprocessed sounds and manipulate it from there since you can always go back to the original if you do not like or need to re-work a song years later when tastes in EQ/Compression/Effects have changed. If you record it with EQ then you stuck with that EQ forever. This can be particularly damaging in recording live situations where you may not be able to re-record the band or the band cold not repeat that good performance or someone is paying by the hour. The solution? Put effects on the monitor channels of the recorder. That way, you can hear the effects that you would like to use, but you do not have to commit them to disk/tape (or record the effect on a separate track than the dry signal). This is a commonly used technique when recording vocals. Most vocalists do not like the way they sound in a 3x3 booth and it can be a lot easier to add a light reverb to the monitoring channel in their headphones. The reverb is added for them, but you already know that you are going to put sompletely different settings on what gets recorded.
If you are just recording to 2-track, then you would need to EQ individual tracks before recording. This can be accomplished to a degree with the EB-16. The only limitation is that you only get two different simultaneus EQ settings, which is probably enough for 90% of the work.
You do have a valid point there, but here's some in return:
1) You can EQ with the EB-16
2) One could start with samples that do not need EQ'ing
3) Fix EQ once it is multitracked into the recorder
Granted that #2 may be a stretch for untrained ears, since they would not be able to listen to a single sample in PC sample editor and already know how it would fit in mix (after tens years, it is somewhat easier for me).
#3 may be the preferred (and I suggest that method whether you own the 8-outs or not) since EQ is destructive and one usually does not record heavily altered sounds initially into a recorder. Most record dry unprocessed sounds and manipulate it from there since you can always go back to the original if you do not like or need to re-work a song years later when tastes in EQ/Compression/Effects have changed. If you record it with EQ then you stuck with that EQ forever. This can be particularly damaging in recording live situations where you may not be able to re-record the band or the band cold not repeat that good performance or someone is paying by the hour. The solution? Put effects on the monitor channels of the recorder. That way, you can hear the effects that you would like to use, but you do not have to commit them to disk/tape (or record the effect on a separate track than the dry signal). This is a commonly used technique when recording vocals. Most vocalists do not like the way they sound in a 3x3 booth and it can be a lot easier to add a light reverb to the monitoring channel in their headphones. The reverb is added for them, but you already know that you are going to put sompletely different settings on what gets recorded.
If you are just recording to 2-track, then you would need to EQ individual tracks before recording. This can be accomplished to a degree with the EB-16. The only limitation is that you only get two different simultaneus EQ settings, which is probably enough for 90% of the work.
By Lampdog
Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:58 pm
mpc3000 wrote:I have always suggested that people buy the EB-16 before the 8-outs (see other threads for EB discussions). You can always get your music out of the MPC without the 8-outs since all you did was buy time. However, the EB can do things that it would take a rack of gear to do. In other words, not having an EB is more of a drastic effect than not having the 8-outs.
I have always suggested the EB16 as well. I don't have 8 outs though, I want it but I'm happy where I'm at. If I do decide to get it this would be good advice again..
Stop getting automatically offended when you see gold letters!
By elmacaco
Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:15 am
Hmm...
CAn the eb-16 be used to EQ 8 channels or more? That would be great. Or do you have to resample?
The better mixing allowed by the 8 outs is worth it for me.
Then again, the 60 has the 8 outs as standard. If I had a 2000 I would definately cop the 8 outs and the EB.
CAn the eb-16 be used to EQ 8 channels or more? That would be great. Or do you have to resample?
The better mixing allowed by the 8 outs is worth it for me.
Then again, the 60 has the 8 outs as standard. If I had a 2000 I would definately cop the 8 outs and the EB.
By Lampdog
Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:06 am
elmacaco wrote:Hmm...
CAn the eb-16 be used to EQ 8 channels or more? That would be great. Or do you have to resample?
The better mixing allowed by the 8 outs is worth it for me.
Then again, the 60 has the 8 outs as standard. If I had a 2000 I would definately cop the 8 outs and the EB.
A couple of my friends have the 8 outs and EB16 (everyone has 8out 'cept me - sigh) and I showed them how to route with it. The EB16 is a effects card with four busses. The filter (EQ) can only be placed on the 2 multieffects busses (they are called M1, M2). The other 2 are dedicated to reverb (R1, R2).
Stop getting automatically offended when you see gold letters!
By mpc3000
Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:53 am
"CAn the eb-16 be used to EQ 8 channels or more? "
Not sure what you mean by channels. Like I and Lampdog mentioned, you have access to two separate multi-FX busses, each with independent settings, at one time. You can place the two effects on all 64 pads, none or any combination between. The FX routing in the MPC2000 is pretty much the same as the MPC60/3000, but instead of just sending to E, you get to select M1, M2, R1, R2.
Not sure what you mean by channels. Like I and Lampdog mentioned, you have access to two separate multi-FX busses, each with independent settings, at one time. You can place the two effects on all 64 pads, none or any combination between. The FX routing in the MPC2000 is pretty much the same as the MPC60/3000, but instead of just sending to E, you get to select M1, M2, R1, R2.
By elmacaco
Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:39 am
so different settings for each of the 64 pads?
or it is like aux's where you route each pad to one of two effects 'units
or it is like aux's where you route each pad to one of two effects 'units
By mpc3000
Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:35 am
"like aux's where you route each pad to one of two effects 'units"
Yes, but you get 4 (2 multi and 2 reverb).
Yes, but you get 4 (2 multi and 2 reverb).