keyboards

Can everyone tell me what keyboard they use and the benefits of the keyboard? I am trying to decide what keyboard i want.

i had a microkorg,until i left it at my boys studio and he put the power plug for his nord into it..smoke and sparks.not a good day

247beatz wrote:Can everyone tell me what keyboard they use and the benefits of the keyboard? I am trying to decide what keyboard i want.

Better yet post what kind of features or tasks you're looking to pull off. Also a price range would help.

i want really good sounds and i want it to work with my mpc pretty good.

Alright, 247, you're gonna need to narrow down your list.

Right now, you're lookin at 3 main categories of (modern) synth, and after that you're lookin at 2 flavors each particular unit comes in, usually.

Those 3 categories are: analog modelling, sample playback, and full workstation synths. Almost all modern boards fall into these three categories. There's a few true analogs out still but not many, and FM is mostly a thing of the 80s.

Analog modelling synths (MS2000, EA-1, Nords, etc) basically use an object oriented approach to digital synthesis. They work off a model similar to the physical shaping process (all those crazy circuits and tubes bending a sound to hell and back) for creating sounds on an old-school modular (or compact) synth. Benefits over old-school synths? Well, they're not as big as your bathroom, they're cheaper to produce and they sound pretty damn close, though descriminators will tell you what's what any day. The sounds coming off these boxes are going to be SYNTHY SOUNDS like leads, basses and pads. They are not going to sound like real instruments, though you may synthesize some kinda-sorta-realistic sounding ish now and again.

Sample playback (also known as ROMpler) synths (Cheaper E-MUs, EM-1s, cheaper Roland boards and racks) work just like a sampler, only they come pre-equipped with sounds. The tweakability here is not very high, but they often come with excellent sounds, often geared for particular styles of music. These boards are more for the budgetting musician looking for sounds similar to those on the radio, or to suppliment your existing setup with fresh sounds. The sounds coming off these units are generally REAL INSTRUMENT SOUNDS and samples of SYNTH SOUNDS that have been cooked up in-factory. Every time a new bunch of these type units comes out, a few hungry entrepeneurs go out, buy em up and sample all the sounds off em, and sell or return them for profit, using and selling the samples they got on eBay. Good for them. Haha. Keeps the sounds fresh for people who don't sample themselves. Same goes for the units themselves. Only, the people who sample off these boxes generally don't make full-on multisamples and aren't professional recordists like the people who sampled the tones present on the machines themselves. Anyhow, fun stuff, not as expensive as the next category.

Workstations (the very popular Triton series, MOTIFs, Fantoms, and my beloved, slept-on Karma) are the powerhouses of the industry. They contain several hundreds of samples and sometimes go beyond sample playback to incorporate physical modelling of synth tones, etc. Editing on a workstation is incredibly deep. You can start with one sound and end up with a completely different tone, one that no one would ever recognize. Often workstations incorporate sampling capability built-in. MOTIFs do, Tritons either come with it or you can buy an add-on. Workstations almost always have multiple sets of outs, sometimes 8, but at least 4. On a workstation you can sequence, setup complex keysplits and velocity splits, and on machines like the MOTIF and Karma, you can create incredibly deep, often very convincing musical phrases which emulate those of a real player. (MOTIF phrases are based on actual musicians recording MIDI via drum pads, wind controllers, MIDI guitars and what have you, Karma uses an internal phrase engine to generate its data on the fly)

A more in-depth sampler is another way to add infinite flexibility to your setup, and allows you to constantly purchase or create new sound libraries to play via keyboard or MPC. Rack units from Yamaha, Akai, E-MU and elsewhere have editing capabilities on par with those of the workstation class of keyboard, and as Steve from Hollow Sun (www.hollowsun.com) will testify, that's where a good deal of your keyboards' ROM sound sets are created.

Most of the more expensive units in each of these categories comes in at least two flavors: Key and Rack. Some of them come in several models (Triton's LE, Pro, and Studio) and several sizes. (most often 61, 76, 88)

It's really all in how you want your setup to act. You can buy tons of keyboards over time (if you're in a money-making kind of situation) if you like more direct interaction with your sound source, or you can get a nice keyboard controller and a bunch of rack gear for much cheaper. You could also (as I've done) buy one keyboard and add on rack units to be controlled by the original keysynth you got.

Do a lot of research before deciding. Ask people why they got that specific unit. Make sure you know exactly what you want.

Peace,
-tank

247beatz wrote:i want really good sounds and i want it to work with my mpc pretty good.

By the way, essentially all MIDI gear works with all MIDI gear. That's the beauty of MIDI. It all speaks the same language. Very little is not portable from unit to unit. Ask around for specific instances of data which can not be shared or communicated.

-tank.

Damn! Thynktank you just taught a whole class. That was sweet. This should be saved as a standard post for folks here. I was thinking of how to respond to the question, but you broke it down so beautifully. I just wanted to say thanks for dropping so much.

Peace.

Micro korg as well, nice synth modeling for great bass sounds!

Now i think i want to go with a keyboard controller and have the rack gear. I went to one of the local music stores and I played around with the emu mophatt. I like that way of doing things. Do you have any reccomendations for a controller????

thynctank, do you recommend gettin a compact one or a 61-72 key one???????

247beatz wrote:Now i think i want to go with a keyboard controller and have the rack gear. I went to one of the local music stores and I played around with the emu mophatt. I like that way of doing things. Do you have any reccomendations for a controller????

I use a studio logic by fatar SL880 and I love it to death. Pending on your budget you might wanna consider getting a used one.

turn wrote:i had a microkorg,until i left it at my boys studio and he put the power plug for his nord into it..smoke and sparks.not a good day

did you take his Nord?

thynctank wrote:Alright, 247, you're gonna need to narrow down your list.

Right now, you're lookin at 3 main categories of (modern) synth, and after that you're lookin at 2 flavors each particular unit comes in, usually.

Those 3 categories are: analog modelling, sample playback, and full workstation synths. Almost all modern boards fall into these three categories. There's a few true analogs out still but not many, and FM is mostly a thing of the 80s.

Analog modelling synths (MS2000, EA-1, Nords, etc) basically use an object oriented approach to digital synthesis. They work off a model similar to the physical shaping process (all those crazy circuits and tubes bending a sound to hell and back) for creating sounds on an old-school modular (or compact) synth. Benefits over old-school synths? Well, they're not as big as your bathroom, they're cheaper to produce and they sound pretty damn close, though descriminators will tell you what's what any day. The sounds coming off these boxes are going to be SYNTHY SOUNDS like leads, basses and pads. They are not going to sound like real instruments, though you may synthesize some kinda-sorta-realistic sounding ish now and again.

Sample playback (also known as ROMpler) synths (Cheaper E-MUs, EM-1s, cheaper Roland boards and racks) work just like a sampler, only they come pre-equipped with sounds. The tweakability here is not very high, but they often come with excellent sounds, often geared for particular styles of music. These boards are more for the budgetting musician looking for sounds similar to those on the radio, or to suppliment your existing setup with fresh sounds. The sounds coming off these units are generally REAL INSTRUMENT SOUNDS and samples of SYNTH SOUNDS that have been cooked up in-factory. Every time a new bunch of these type units comes out, a few hungry entrepeneurs go out, buy em up and sample all the sounds off em, and sell or return them for profit, using and selling the samples they got on eBay. Good for them. Haha. Keeps the sounds fresh for people who don't sample themselves. Same goes for the units themselves. Only, the people who sample off these boxes generally don't make full-on multisamples and aren't professional recordists like the people who sampled the tones present on the machines themselves. Anyhow, fun stuff, not as expensive as the next category.

Workstations (the very popular Triton series, MOTIFs, Fantoms, and my beloved, slept-on Karma) are the powerhouses of the industry. They contain several hundreds of samples and sometimes go beyond sample playback to incorporate physical modelling of synth tones, etc. Editing on a workstation is incredibly deep. You can start with one sound and end up with a completely different tone, one that no one would ever recognize. Often workstations incorporate sampling capability built-in. MOTIFs do, Tritons either come with it or you can buy an add-on. Workstations almost always have multiple sets of outs, sometimes 8, but at least 4. On a workstation you can sequence, setup complex keysplits and velocity splits, and on machines like the MOTIF and Karma, you can create incredibly deep, often very convincing musical phrases which emulate those of a real player. (MOTIF phrases are based on actual musicians recording MIDI via drum pads, wind controllers, MIDI guitars and what have you, Karma uses an internal phrase engine to generate its data on the fly)

A more in-depth sampler is another way to add infinite flexibility to your setup, and allows you to constantly purchase or create new sound libraries to play via keyboard or MPC. Rack units from Yamaha, Akai, E-MU and elsewhere have editing capabilities on par with those of the workstation class of keyboard, and as Steve from Hollow Sun (www.hollowsun.com) will testify, that's where a good deal of your keyboards' ROM sound sets are created.

Most of the more expensive units in each of these categories comes in at least two flavors: Key and Rack. Some of them come in several models (Triton's LE, Pro, and Studio) and several sizes. (most often 61, 76, 88)

It's really all in how you want your setup to act. You can buy tons of keyboards over time (if you're in a money-making kind of situation) if you like more direct interaction with your sound source, or you can get a nice keyboard controller and a bunch of rack gear for much cheaper. You could also (as I've done) buy one keyboard and add on rack units to be controlled by the original keysynth you got.

Do a lot of research before deciding. Ask people why they got that specific unit. Make sure you know exactly what you want.

Peace,
-tank

IS THAT ALL YOU GOT TO SAY?? if you're gonna say something, say something worthy!!!!

Man, you got down with that passage. Good work, I felt like I was in some sort of keyboard class.

IS THAT ALL YOU GOT TO SAY?? if you're gonna say something, say something worthy!!!!

Haha. Late at night, I babble but may be unclear on some things. So it's a lot of talkin, not always much bein said.

So here's what I use anyway: Karma, and that's it for right now as far as keyboards and modules. (I do have that S5000, but I figure it'll see more action as I build more of my own soundsets including personally sample multi-instruments, and playing with the free vintage S5k progs at Hollow Sun is always good) It's got tons of sounds, tweakability nigh infinity, and the KARMA function of course. Soon as I get back in the swing of beatmaking, I'm gonna surge up there, because my skills are dead on when it comes to executing a particular sound. Bout to get my monitors fixed and take off. Just me and the MPC and a pair of headphones for the moment, and the occasional programming of a sound on the Karma, wit headphones yet again. It's getting old.

The soundset on the Karma is nearly identical to the Triton, has all the same actual ROM sounds, just a few different programs. (mostly altered to take advantage of the KARMA engine and using GEs [Generated Effects] instead of normal arpeggios) The KARMA engine is tight as hell. I only really have one example of it for anyone to listen to right now, it's a bit old and uses one of Tutor's first sound collection bits off Breaks & Bass. It's also a crusty recording off my old laptop which was falling apart at the time. Check it, it's the loop that plays on my site www.thynctank.com if you click the on switch next to the logo. The piano was entirely generated by KARMA with just a few nudges and tweaks by me. I chose the chords and controlled how notes would sound in the end, mostly by tweaking the KARMA knobs and whatnot.

KARMA generated effects are controlled either via the machine itself or created whole in the software available for the keyboard (and for Tritons) Karma MW/Karma Triton. Deep **** program, and I've barely skimmed the surface of it.

Comparison of Karma to the Triton boards: Same soundset, Karma has more insert FX than Triton LE (5 versus 3 I believe) and comes with 4 outs by default. (2 main, 2 routable) KARMA tech instead of arps. Chord triggers for people with only one finger. Karma only comes in 61 key, Tritons come in 3 sizes. Tritons are expandable with sampler, CDBurner and SCSI, digital I/O options, Karma is not. Both expandable via EXB soundset boards, both can use EXB-MOSS to run analog modelling similar to MS2000 (some of the same algorithms involved) Bigger Tritons have touch screen, Karma does not. Triton Studio can record audio tracks beside the sequence data, allowing "in-track sampling" for creating complete songs with the workstation alone.

I've messed only briefly with Tritons in store, it's essentially the same engine. Synthesis parameters, once the concept behind sound generation is explained, are very succinct and it's easy to follow the flow.

MOTIF I was really impressed with the sounds, as lots of people on here have mentioned numerous times, but, like many others, I did not think the interface was intuitive at all. Haven't messed with Fantom, S0x boards or any other expensive boards, though I have played around on a fair number of cheapass (sub $100 Casio-style haha) boards and have made use of sounds sampled from these Casio boards in my MPC beats.

I'm not the one to ask which board he prefers, but for the board I own I can tell you ALL the basics and a good amount of post-learning-trauma assistance as well.

I program sounds there, (and on computer with freeware synth apps) run KARMA there, and control softsynths and the S5K from there. (and MPC) If you want a hands-on synth with keys right at your fingertips, grab your favorite workstation, THEN start stashing cash for whatever racks you want. But do like I didn't, and use up your existing sounds before you go blowing cash. I've learned my lesson and won't be buying another synth toy for a long while. Celly bill is bad enough!

Spread knowledge, gain wisdom.

Shalom,
-tank.