Battle between Software and hardware

nah elmac has a good point especieally about the wavestation.I've been using hardware for the longest and I got software too but Istill can't seem to get into the software thang yet.a lot of new school cats are born into the sofware era, like they don't know much about the mpc60,they started at the 2000 on up so the bias opinion might be that the 2000 is better.don't get me wrong software is great I'm just more comfy with hardware.

i started out with a computer and software but over time went to all hardware. except for a breif stint with recycle 2. i haven't looked back in years. the work flow is better for me plus it places limts wich i need because i can get lost in software and no mouse witch was a biggie for me, i hate those rodants.

onumb wrote:i started out with a computer and software but over time went to all hardware. except for a breif stint with recycle 2. i haven't looked back in years. the work flow is better for me plus it places limts wich i need because i can get lost in software and no mouse witch was a biggie for me, i hate those rodants.

similar story over here.

It's really not about Hardware VS Software, it's really a question of what "machine or system" do you prefer.

On any MPC you have built-in software called "firmware" which is placed on the microchips of the units and provide the operating system and determine certain functions.

On a PC you have the BIOS (which is firmware) that is hardcoded to the microchips that determine certain functions, and capabilities.

The MPC is a dedicated machine that was only designed and meant for music production.

The PC is a multipurpose machine which was designed to handle a WIDE range of tasks with the help of additional hardware components & specialized software made for computers.


When you really think about it, this is why you COULD possibly have so many problems with using a PC as your music machine, because when you throw in, who made the Computer itself, (Dell, IBM, etc) Operating System (usually going to be Microsoft), when you throw in who made your Audio Interface, Who made your Audio Software (countless software developers) you can imagine if anyone in this chain makes any mistakes (which they all do) and all those little mistakes add up, it can affect the entire system.

The clear advantage the MPC and other dedicated units have is that it's all self contained and made primarily by one manufacturer and designed with one thing in mind. The ALL-IN-ONE idea isn't always ideal. But then when you look at how long PC computer based music production has been used, it won't be too much longer before it's just as solid as using an MPC or any other dedicated unit.

By the way I use a computer workstation for my production, I don't own an MPC YET.

I'm sure no computer can sound exacly like an Arp Odyssey for example, but for the price of the software in comparison to the hardware, it sounds exactly the same to me! I wouldn't pay a couple extra grand for the slight difference in sound.
I've had quite a few synth's, and personally, software is the way to go if your on a budget. I'm not on a budget, but I'm tired of spending money on gear. I've been doing it for 5 years now.. enough is enough. When I need sounds for inspiration, even some free shareware synth can provide that needed spark.. Anything free will sound good!

See, people weigh them on cost, and then say that they sound the same. but the decision is based on Cost.

That's just illusion, like saying you would still drive a hyundai if you were loaded.

elmacaco wrote:See, people weigh them on cost, and then say that they sound the same. but the decision is based on Cost.

That's just illusion, like saying you would still drive a hyundai if you were loaded.

I like that analogy

pro tools is software AAND hardware, so technially its both.....



























...crawls back into the hole he came from and hopes for a huge brawl

I was a software advocate for many years...especially for sampling. Now, I am going all hardware...except for recording...and I have to admit I was wrong. Hardware sounds better and is funner for me. However, software is the best way to get into the game...it is cheap and can sound great. There are people out there who can make tracks with software that sound better than anything I will ever make with hardware.

"like saying you would still drive a hyundai if you were loaded."

If I need to get from point A to B, I'd drive anything. Even if the hyundai wasn't loaded.. wind up windows, 15 inch wheels and AM 8 track radio, I'd still drive it. If software can provide inspiration for a beat, I could care less if it sounds 100% like the original. It's just like people saying how great the SP-1200 sounds, but I have never heard a beat and said "Ohh, that's an sp-1200 snare." My emax sounds so close to the 1200 and I don't even use it.. in fact, I like the lo-fi out my sp-303 more than I do the 1200, or the emax, so sometimes spending money on that authentic piece of hardware isn't neccessary. Now if you know how an arp 2600 sounds, and you simply can't dig the software, that's completely understandable. I've never owned an actual tr-808, but I'm not about to spend $1000.00 on the actual machine.. my samples sound great.
Some things are kinda pointless to attain, and expensive hardware in the hands of the unknown is foolish. As a hop hop junky, I would pay a nice penny for some original afrika bombaataa tracks that never made the album. Now, if you just 'like' and don't 'love' hip-hop a re-issue on cd may be good enough. Same thing with hardware. Why spend $2-3000 on a machine that you really don't know how it sounds. I don't know how an arp 2600 (or any other expensive synth) sounds, so the software that emulates it will sound great to me.

i use a mixture of both, but what most people lack:

1 is the investment in time in learning software, because they spent $0 on a crack. when u buy something you appreciate it more and are more prone to explore and learn it

2 use of key commands hence all of the comments about using a mouse. software is nothing without key commands

3 good controllers. a mackie control universal is essential, and a good controller keyboard like the x-station.

4 solid systems. they use a $400 computer to run powerful audio programs. then they say oh software sucks and is unstable. of course it does if u r trying to run it on an inadequate computer.

5 and finally lack of a good soundcard. i just realized this week that a lot of people on this board will spend 2k on a triton or motif, and turn around and spend less than $500 on a soundcard. this and a lack of investment in good monitors are the reason why most people's recordings suck. when u ask people to list their gear u see triton, motif, mo patt, mpc 2000xl, roland xv-5050 and then mbox. and i'm like ok u spent abpout 7k on your sounds and u r using a buget converter to get it in your computer. dat ish is amazing.

It should never be a battle between the two...IMO. Two heads are better than one. If you use both(hardware & software) together, they can compliment each other. And if you get bored with one, you can go to the other. I have FL Studio and a MPC1K, both will be dropping new updates soon, so it'll be hard to choose which one I want to give my full attention

roxstar wrote:

If I need to get from point A to B, I'd drive anything. Even if the hyundai wasn't loaded.. wind up windows, 15 inch wheels and AM 8 track radio, I'd still drive it.

You drive what is available to you.

If software can provide inspiration for a beat, I could care less if it sounds 100% like the original.

Then don't say it sounds just like the original, or close enough, if you've never heard the original, you are spreading bullshyt just to make yourself feel better, like it was a choice you made when you really only had one option.

It's just like people saying how great the SP-1200 sounds, but I have never heard a beat and said "Ohh, that's an sp-1200 snare." My emax sounds so close to the 1200 and I don't even use it.. in fact, I like the lo-fi out my sp-303 more than I do the 1200, or the emax, so sometimes spending money on that authentic piece of hardware isn't neccessary.

No one said buying the real thing is necessary, but neither is dissing it when you don't or can't buy it, let alone when you've never been in a room with one. It just comes off as bitter.

People prefer different things, but you can;t compare what you haven't heard or used, have you used an SP-1200? are you sure that you would prefer the 303 sound to it then? The emax has a different sound than the 1200, but valuable on it's own. I own an emax because I like it, not because I want the 1200 sound and can't afford it. If I did, I still wouldnt be going around saying people are wasting their money on SP-1200's because the emax sounds so close.

Now if you know how an arp 2600 sounds, and you simply can't dig the software, that's completely understandable. I've never owned an actual tr-808, but I'm not about to spend $1000.00 on the actual machine.. my samples sound great.

The machine is different. They sound different. When you hear the real thing, it has a different sound, some think it's a better sound, not everyone does, but most people like the sound better, but still can;t afford to purchase them, so they use the software. There is nothing wrng with that, but don't make up shyt about the hardware that you don't know. Some people have the machines, some people pay top dollar for the real thing and there is a reason they go for so much money.

Some things are kinda pointless to attain, and expensive hardware in the hands of the unknown is foolish.

Pointless for you perhaps. Most people don;t understand the gear they buy until they use it for a while. So the pointless comment is a prejudgement that is a bit premature. i know I've had gear that I didn;t come to appreciate until much later.

As a hop hop junky, I would pay a nice penny for some original afrika bombaataa tracks that never made the album. Now, if you just 'like' and don't 'love' hip-hop a re-issue on cd may be good enough.

that's collectorism talking, the same thing can apply to gear. Some people would rather own the 808's and fairlight like the ones that Bam used to make his tracks rather than a rare 12". then again the 12" will be cheaper.

Likeing or loving hip hop has nothing to do with it, it's liking collecting records, and rare opnes at that for bragging rights. Some people do that with gear, but that doesn't mean that it's the only reason to get it.

Same thing with hardware. Why spend $2-3000 on a machine that you really don't know how it sounds.

Well for one the hardware retains it's value much better than software, the gear may have features you want. how many people bought the MPC 2500 without knowing how it sounds? and i don;t know, maybe you'll learn something from some hardware that you might not know from software, like feedback tricks.

I think the real issue here is that software cracks are free, like Beat God said, so it's hard to argue with free versus cash, but you wouldn't shell out $600 for that arp 2600 emulation unless you value the sound of the original, or you just want quality analog emulation cuz it's the in thing.

I don't know how an arp 2600 (or any other expensive synth) sounds, so the software that emulates it will sound great to me.

if you can;t afford it there is no reason to hate it. Also just because it's free doesnt mean it will sound good to you, there can be emulations that sound terrible, but once you can really compare the SOUND of things, not thier price tags, or rarity, or props you'll get for owning them, you will be able to live with less illusions about why you use what you do.

There are lots of things I want that I can't afford, and i use what I am lucky enough to get my hands on, most of which I don't need to buy since studios have some nice gear i can use, but just because its out of my reach doesn't mean that what is in my reach sounds better.

there's no reason to hate the gear cuz we can't afford it, just be real with the motives and reasons, otherwise you just misrepresent yourself and it doesn;t help anybody, not even you.




[/quote]

My .02...I use both hardware and software. In both cases there is a definite advantage to one over the other. Soft synths sound good but they DON'T have the same sound or dynamics as thier hardware counterpoints any more than a sampled hi hat does to a real set of hats. They're good but they are only a facsimile of the original.
As for DAW's - like many of this sites users, I tend to create and mix on hardware and master on software. While soft DAW's are excellent, I grew up using faders, knobs, and record / play buttons. It is just a personal preference that I'd rather use a mixing desk over a keyboard.
For tweaking samples or mastering, software just can't be beat...When editing samples a good GUI is a must - same applies to mastering. If there were a hardware device that could compete, I'd be using it already

"Then don't say it sounds just like the original,"

I'm just saying what was said about a particular software synth. I've never used a synth in a computer except for the free one that came in a garageband program for the mac, and even that one surprised the schyt outta me!

"People prefer different things, but you can;t compare what you haven't heard or used, have you used an SP-1200?"

Yes, and it's an overglorified limited machine. I like it, but I'd never spend the $1000+ on one.

"but don't make up shyt about the hardware that you don't know."

What makes you think that I'm just making this schyt up? A TR-808 sells for about $1000. It's sounds good, but so do my samples. An actual TR-808 does sound good, but not $1000 better than my free samples.

"that's collectorism talking, the same thing can apply to gear. "
That's exactly whay I say spending big money on equipment you know nothing about it pointless. I never said simply buying it was pointless did I?

"Well for one the hardware retains it's value much better than software"

Now, that's collectorism talking!

"if you can;t afford it there is no reason to hate it. Also just because it's free doesnt mean it will sound good to you, there can be emulations that sound terrible"

That's where you got me twisted. Firstly, I'm no 16 year old kid living with my parents. I can afford anything musically that I want. Seriously.. not trying to brag or anything. It's just that I've learned that spending money and lusting gear is NOT the answer. I have learned to make the most out of anything I can get my hands on. I threw away some garbage today and liked the sound the tin cans made when it hit the bottom of the bin. I would sample that if it wasn't so cold outside . I don't need a sound module that has a tin can sound. I'll use my mic and record some wacky noise just to put it through some efffects, de-tune, etc. Not all sounds are good, ESPECIALLY the ones that you pay for. I'm VERY dissapointed in a keyboard/sound module when it's not what I expected.. but give it to me for free, and I won't have a bad word to say about it. I don't mind not liking a sound that I don't have to spend money on, so I will always appreciate free sounds. I sample kids toys, traffic, and anything that can spark an interest. Personally I think anyone that doing all that is getting really deep into their music and taking things to the next level. It means a lot more than simply spending a couple thousand bux on a machine just because of it's higher re-sale value.