Battle between Software and hardware

d_loc wrote:If DSP is the issue, how come those Yamaha boards like the EX5 sound so good with such limited DSP? Why can't a computer with a p4 3.2 convincingly emulate some hardware with (albeit a couple) of slower Motorola DSP chips?

Is it processor or programming holding this stuff back?

the answer is that it would. the problem is that a pc has other operations to do. a programmer can't make total use of a computers chip otherwise u couldnt run anything else on it. those slower motoroa chips r dedicated to 1 thing. that is why access wasable to make the virus run on the powercore. the hardware version uses the same exact motorola chip as the powercore. i have heard both and they sound exactly the same. as they should cause the virus is all digital. but i am talking about emulating analog circuits u need a fair amount of horsepower to do that and no one is buying a synth that hogs all of their system resources. as computers get more and more powerful u will see emulations get a lot better

cooocooo1 wrote:

roxstar wrote:Your sm58 can sound just like a neuman

damnitman!!!!

he didn't really say that....did he???

maybe you should put the pipe down roxstar....

oh, by the way when is the last time you used a neumann, also include model number, and signal chain from mic->pre->lim(if used)->comp(if used)->eq->a/d

my money says the closest you've been to one is via the web

roxstar you keep rolling over and changing the subject trying to escape.

the fact is you can sue what you want, what you have whatever, but you have no business opening your mouth about gear you don;t know the first thing about, because it's just a name to you, and you talk way top much about stuff you know nothing about.

I'm out.

elmacaco wrote:roxstar you keep rolling over and changing the subject trying to escape.

the fact is you can sue what you want, what you have whatever, but you have no business opening your mouth about gear you don;t know the first thing about, because it's just a name to you, and you talk way top much about stuff you know nothing about.

I'm out.

So what exactly are you trying to say here?

I'm back! I had to take care of a few things, but I'm ready to fight again!

"he didn't really say that....did he???
maybe you should put the pipe down roxstar.... Rolling Eyes
oh, by the way when is the last time you used a neumann, also include model number, and signal chain from mic->pre->lim(if used)->comp(if used)->eq->a/d"

I guess somebody hasn't been reading the posts on here.. So you just wanna jump in eh, that's cool. I ain't scared o' you niggum
Personally, I have never used any mic. My voice is extra horrible! I do have an Octiva, or some schyt like that.. got it on sale for like $89 bux.. guitar center clearance.. ya know... my kinda deals...el cheapo! haha. The mic sounds ok.. not as good as my budget shure Mic.. came with the stand and xtra long cable for $39.00!! When I used to have a recorder, it had this really strange thing inside of it. It was called Mic modeling.. and guess what it did? It made it sound better or worse depending on the settings.
What you commented on (I don't remember the actual mic brand) my whole purpose was that to have the neuman you need either the Money, the talent to REALLY sing, or a Need for the mic. A $3000 mic will not sound like a $3000 mic on a budget pre-production studio. It won't sound like a $3000 mic on an mbox prottols setup. Even if you had the right pre-amps, but crap monitors, it won't sound right. Ok, lets say you have the right equipment, but the Vocalist can't sing, poor mic placement.. or simply bad engineering? Is a $3000 mic going to make any difference? There are facotrs that make people need a mic so expensive, and in the wrong hands, it won't sound right. An 8 track Fostex can sound like protools with the right engineer, and protools can sound like schyt in the wrong hands. Yes, I want my mic to sound as good, but does good have to be "neuman," or can good mean good to my ears? Good to the listeners ears? Does it have to be good to the few people that know how a Neuman mic sounds? We make hip-hop music. Low budget stuff. Who really cares about a mic that costs so much? Who's voice in rap/hip-hop benefits from a $3000 mic? Eminem? Busta rhymes? Lil Kim? Or Stevie Wonder? Aretha Franklin? Carlos Santana? I'm quite sure Stevie may not sound as good on my $39.00 special, low budget mic; but with engineering, you and I wouldn't know the difference. Hip-hop doesn't require Ultra expensive gear to sound good. That's not my opinion, that's the way it has always been. Lyno (kitchen floor material, but spelled wrong)was great to break-dance with, but cardboard was cool too! Some even used their heads with just hats on concrete! The end result is that they all made some spare change to ride the bus with. I'm sure a brazilian hard wood floor would have been perfect.
And about that eq/comp settings, I already mentioned, that's some sucka type schyt right there. You got equipment that can do more than you can imagine, and you need my settings? I use double ply toilet paper to wipe my butt with, and I fold it at least once. Copy them settings.

"but you have no business opening your mouth about gear you don;t know the first thing about, because it's just a name to you, and you talk way top much about stuff you know nothing about."

Ok, Elc, show me your ARP2600 and Neuman mic? If your rolling like that, why are you rocking an MPC with that kinda gear? You need a band! I already said I didn't know anything about it, and that was my reason why I wanted the VST...remember: because I DON'T know how it REALLY sounds. I don't need you to tell me that, I've confessed it many times before. I don't want to pay the money. I'm not knocking anyone that ownes one either. Nuances, and all that other crap are things that PROFESSIONAL talk about. My 5.1 megapixel camera takes GREAT pictures. Personally I don't see any difference between my camera and an 9 megapixel camera, but to a PROFESSIONAL photographer, a 16 megapixel camera may be just ok.. a 5.1 camera may look like complete crap to him. I know the diffenence between a 1 megapixel camera and a 5... I'm NOT saying that you can make a cheap camera look like an expensive one, BUT if you know nothing about a camera, and don't want to spend a few grand on an expensive one, LEARN off the cheap schyt and progressivly upgrade. A cheap ol VST or (in your case) $400 mic may NOT sound like the big ticket item, but make the track first with what you got, and I'll bet money your listening audience can't tell the difference. Any $400 mic will sound GREAT to your fans. THEY DON"T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE! They just want to hear good music. That's what I ment when I said your mic can sound like a Neuman. The VST can sound like the ARP becuase no-one except you will know what you use. If someone made a hot track with a neuman plug-in and a 2600 VST, 99.9% of you will be convinced.
Are you a pro in this music world? What have you made, or who do you create sounds for that requires a $5000 or whatever synth? Kursweild? Lucas Arts? Miles davis records in your lab? Ohh, you did the FX in star trek! I shoulda known! I make beats in my spare bedroom.. mainly for my enjoyment. This music hasn't made enough money to pay for my equipment. You make bread like that off your tracks?? If you do then feel free to buy whatever you need. I'm making this music pay for itself from now on. Most of you rely on the power of your gear, more than the creative knowledge in your mind. I know too many people that look down at other that have a less technical studio. Makes em feel good to say, "ohh, you use a shure.. ohh, I use a Neuman." But if my music sounds better, then what good is the neuman? This gear is just that..gear, it don't make you, you make it!... And if you can't create anything special with your big ticket pieces, all that quality, and pureness in sound doesn't mean anything.
Now go ahead and say that I'm just saying what I don't know. Lets battle VST freeware synth , against your real arp. Your $400 (or whatever it costs) mic vs my $39 cheapo, extra budget, discontinued because no one wants it mic. I don't have a recorder but I'll take my time and 2 track the beat..I know you got pro-tools, or something better!. Computer with unlimited tracks? I'll use my eq in the vestax 05.. high quality 2 band. I'm getting Fruity Loops this weekend and then I have to get a VST.. gimme a week to get it running. Jaem, you too.. since you want to get in. Enough of this talk schyt. Lets whoop ass with beats! I'm a hip-hop niggum.. I don't mind a battle, and if you beat me, be ready for round 2. If I beat you, give up on round one

what up rox?

just so that u know dre sports an ssl with a sony 800g ($6000) and a vintage neve 1073 pre
eminem and busta r aftermath artists

and people alway say that hip hop is recorded using subpar equipment. there certainly has been a few rocords recorded with cheap equipment as with any genre, but most hip hop isn't recorded that way. if do not tink that is true all records state where they were recorded check your collection. u will see a lot of Unique, D & D, Chung King, The Hit Factory etc. and I am familiar with all of those rooms despite the fact that with the exception of chung king the others r now r.i.p.

people also like to talk about how jay dee can make a track with a sampler and records, but the neglect the fact that he is taking music that was tracked in a studio and mastered already. that is like burning a copy of a cd and saying i made this cd and look how good it sounds, meanwhile no props is given to all of the work that someone else did.

rox,

your words hold no weight....

a page of assumptions based on 2nd and 3rd hand info does not a informed opinion make.....

as for beat's comment......

listen to mobb deep's juvinile hell (and yes I have this on wax btw) vs the ish they did with 50

rza 36 chambers vs his latest release

get the point???

hiphop is big money now and hella money is spent on PROCESSING, maybe not on production (pre-production really) but definitely on processing

Beat God wrote:what up rox?

just so that u know dre sports an ssl with a sony 800g ($6000) and a vintage neve 1073 pre
eminem and busta r aftermath artists

and people alway say that hip hop is recorded using subpar equipment. there certainly has been a few rocords recorded with cheap equipment as with any genre, but most hip hop isn't recorded that way. if do not tink that is true all records state where they were recorded check your collection. u will see a lot of Unique, D & D, Chung King, The Hit Factory etc. and I am familiar with all of those rooms despite the fact that with the exception of chung king the others r now r.i.p.

people also like to talk about how jay dee can make a track with a sampler and records, but the neglect the fact that he is taking music that was tracked in a studio and mastered already. that is like burning a copy of a cd and saying i made this cd and look how good it sounds, meanwhile no props is given to all of the work that someone else did.

Beat GOD THIS is NOT TOTALLY CORRECT..........................

alot OF HIP-HOP and SOME RnB IZ DONE In HOME LABS THEN BUSTED DOWN AND MIXED, MASTERED On WHATEVER................


BUT THUTH IZ THIS U CAN MAKE MUSIC ON ANY THING................



BUT



Sometimes IT DOESN'T PAY TO CUT CORNERS....................


GET THE BEST QUALITY GEAR Within UR Budget..................


And YES PC or MAC Can DO THE MAIN LOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


IF U CAN DO MORE With OTHER GEAR THEN DO IT.............................


With All of That Being SAID I Favor (MONSTER CABLES OVER RADIO SHACK BRAND)

^^^ I KNOW IT SOUNDS RANDOM BUT UR SIGNAL CHAIN IS IMPORTANT..............also..................






.. .. ..

i have done many session where a producer would bring their mpc with all of the tracks on there, run each part through the ssl 9000j and bam we have a record. the finished product sees ssl and neve. it is quite obvious that people use things like a triton or mpc to sequence, because a ssl is not a sequencer, doesn't write music, and doesn't play notes. it just makes what u run through it sound amazing. once u mix on a ssl u will understand. u jave to earn a recorded at " ****" credit on a record they just don't make it up. hell i take all of my finished tracks, after hours and mix them through the 9000j.

"just so that u know dre sports an ssl with a sony 800g ($6000) and a vintage neve 1073 pre "

No only Dre, but anyone in the industry has some of the best of everything, but what did they start with? Everyone on this site is just starting. I can't afford an SSL board, and I doubt anyone on here can either, but you should still try to make your equipment sound as good as you can. I can't expect my yamaha O1V to sound like an SSL, but it should come close... even if I had a $50 behringer mixer, there's no reason why it can't sound good if the music is good to begin with. Anyone that doubts cheaper gear just because it's cheap is foolish. Big studio's are seeing their last days; shutting down left and right. Why? Becuase people are doing things in their own homes... not on SSL's, or Neve 1073 pre's, but on computers with plugins that do a good job of emulating the high priced items. I'm not arguing with anyone about the fact that expensive gear has it's place. Dre should have and SSL, Trick daddy deserves a $3000 mic. Ol dirty bastard probably had one too, but they made the money to buy one.. we ain't made that kinda dough... at least, I haven't.

"listen to mobb deep's juvinile hell (and yes I have this on wax btw) vs the ish they did with 50"

I don't doubt their newer material may sound better, although with the RZA, his ealier stuff was better to me. Quality wise, the newer album will outshine it, but your talking about an 11 or 12 year growth. And if they are with 50, he got money for the best engineers (Dre) to do most of the undercover work. 50 sounded like crap without EM and Dre behind him. If we had money for engineers like that, our tracks would sound 1000% better.. even if the engineers used our cheap tired gear. The difference in big studio gear and decent budget gear isn't THAT big a deal. It's not " kids toy vs Motiff" difference. More like Triton vs Oasis. If we were living back in the 70's, early 80's, I could understand why you need to spend dough on a ARP 2600. Choices were slim, and your choices were expensive any way you looked! Nowadays, we have a lot of different manufacturers competing to get your money, offering more features, better quality, and low prices. If 9th wonder can make things happen with his computer then no-one has an excuse why they need more. He used fruity loops, and recorded a track for Jay-Z. For me, he's an inspiration, same with Pete rock, Madlib, dilla, Kev Brown, Nicolay, RJd2, Primo,Notts etc... When I see them make it with studio's that look like ours that tells me I don't need a $3000 mic. What does it do for y'all?? There's no inspiration to make the most of what you got?.. just inspiration to spend more? Some of you got equipment that does the same thing as another piece, but you haven't learned to figure it out. It's like ya'll got $10,000 worth of MPC's in your studio's.. just doing nothing. To make a beats we need a sequencer, sampler,sounds, microphone, a recorder and creativity It ain't that hard.
Hardware, software, tupperware, swimware....who cares! Lets just make the music. If you guys feel the need to be like Dr. Dre, then buy everything he got. Enjoy your never-ending quest for sonic purity or vintage analog perfection.! As long as manufacturers make products, there will ALWAYS be a reason to NEED it.

roxstar wrote:I can't expect my yamaha O1V to sound like an SSL, but it should come close...

ya killin me mane, killin me...

If 9th wonder can make things happen with his computer then no-one has an excuse why they need more. He used fruity loops, and recorded a track for Jay-Z.

through a 6 figure board....

sometimes i dont get if this is a place for creative peoples wit MPCs or a place for tech nerds who are into equipment (who think they are producers/musicians) to argue over shit they cant afford cause they compensating for the fact their beats are doodoo brown. if you want to argue over gay shit like engineer fags go to gearslutz.com

rox it's funny that the producers u metioned sample and to say that they are making music with just a sampler, is to totally disregard the fact that the records they r using have live musicians, singers, nice studios, good engineers, and have been mastered. and u r right people r tracking at home but the difference is that they r still mixing the finished product on ssl and neve.

dove. oh an gearslutz.com has engineers and professionals that i work with. jealousy is a mutha. i don't own a ssl but engineer on one 4 out of 7 days a week. should i be ashamed of that? that should be something every producer aspires to. and this board isn't just about mpc's. the problem is that people think that they should do everything and lack the skills. if heads just concentrated on creating music they would be a lot better. then once they have that het into other aspect of music creation. but no they get a mpc for christmas, download cracked music software for their $400 pc, try to mix them, and then try to master them.

i came up playing the drums from age 11 and messing with keys a few years after that and been in studios all of my life, watching sessions for wu-tang, mobb deep, pe etc. i didn't even think about being an engineer until 1996, while i was intering at a studio just to make connections and i am 28 right now. so i had experience writing music in bands for many years. i started tracking my band in 1999 on cubase vst 3.7. i then started to work at a major studio in manhattan and really learned my craft. i put in the work and it amazes me that people that just started a few months ago think that their songs should sound like what is on the radio, and when it doesn't they say "oh i want it to sound grimey". i say no it just sounds like ish. 1st law of music is to have respect for it. writing music is hard enough, but y'all wanna do everything overnight. my advice is that if y'all wanna do this "PUT IN DA WORK". but guess what half u cats ain't built for dis. just because u think u can make music doesn't mean that u should.

Beat God...some of us have no other option than to do everything ourselves. I would loove to have someone else master my stuff...but first I have to make something completely ill. Most of us are still learning and it doesn't pay for us to bring it to someone to master or to mix just so we can hand a couple of copies to friends. It ain't no exclusive club...anyone can make music...however, it doesn't mean anyone has to listen.

"rox it's funny that the producers u metioned sample and to say that they are making music with just a sampler, is to totally disregard the fact that the records they r using have live musicians, singers, nice studios, good engineers, and have been mastered. and u r right people r tracking at home but the difference is that they r still mixing the finished product on ssl and neve. "

Your missing my point all together. I know even the wackest artist that is mainstream is using the best gear to FINISH his product on, but you need to use your own gear that you have to create a good product in the first place. I know Kanye, Dre, and whoever else got engineers, but if they didn't know how to make a good beat on thier bedroom setup they wouldn't be in the position they are in today. Dukes on here are trying to be in Kanye's position right NOW buying the expensive schyt before they can make a beat. Use what you got for now.

I can't expect my yamaha O1V to sound like an SSL, but it should come close.
"ya killin me mane, killin me... Mad Mad Mad "

I don't know why. SSL's been around for YEARS. Home production equipment has improved tremendously. 8 channel mixing boards don't cost $2000 anymore like they did 30 years ago? Home produced music has improved also. Most of us can make a beat better than some of the #1 hits that came out 20 years ago. Listen to the music duke.. Tribe called quest was the schyt 15 years ago..but if I was making music back then and sounding the way I do today I'd be rich!! An SSL is a clear sounding mixer, and so is my 01V.. for that matter, so is my boys $50 behringer. If your expecting an SSL to do some scientology magic to your beats then your sadly mistaken. Remember, I'm not saying it doesn't sound better, just not that much better, and Elc, I have worked on an SSL. Check, "The Disc", on 9 mile in Eastpoint. I worked there for a short time. I made a beat on their MPC3000 and ran it through the SSL...my beat was wack (it was about 9 years ago) and the expensive gear in the studio didn't help make it sound better.

"through a 6 figure board...."

but he STARTED on what??

If your making a CD to that is potentially going to be in the hands of thousands, then FINISH your cd with the expensive gear. Rent some studio time and use their SSL, their Neumans, their avalon compressors etc. Make the money from your CD and then buy the gear that you need. If you sell millions, I expect you to have the best. Some of you want what they got right now and can't even work an MPC. Some of you can't find the swing function on an MPC2500, but you wanna make your vocals tight (and can't even rap/sing). Naumans ain't for you right now. Maybe later.. just be patient.