Let's make a Synth

check out this article www.tweakheadz.com/programmer.html

I found this on another site, from another synth, an example
mp3 of what different LFO waveforms, when applied against
an Oscillator (in MPC 4k would be a sample).

The example is OSC1 playing a sawtooth. Then I changed the LFO waveform.
first we have saw up, Saw down, Sine, square and then I just picked a few waveform numbers at random

http://www.modulus.synth.net/mw2/sounds ... veform.mp3


This should give you a better idea of what the different LFO waveforms
sound like, when they are modulating the Oscillator. You'll get the same
type of effect with a sawtooth wav sample and the LFO applied against
it with these waveforms on the 4k. In the case above, the Monowave II
synth has a total of 64 waveforms that the LFO has access to, where
the 4k has like 7 or 8, which is standard in most synths, but the Monowave
takes it a bit further

Now that you've actually heard what the different waveforms do to an
oscillator, you can get an idea of what it does to the filter cutoff, if you
apply it to that. The same type of shape that you hear when it is applied
to the oscillator, is the same as what it does to the cutoff knob if you
select Program Modulation to have LFO modulation cutoff.

Sometimes this stuff is so much easier to understand, once you've
actually heard it, as then you have something to conecptualize against.

Bringing back this thread, as I"ve found the SYNTH TOOLKIT that i mentioned
on it. Besides the ones that are included on the Akai CD that came with the MPC-4000,
you can also use this, to get a beginning at typcial classical subtractive synthesis.

From :
http://website.lineone.net/%7Ejonkatz/waves.htm
** From other website**
In response to a query on the Akai Mailing List, here are some raw synth waveforms which can be used as the basis for synth sounds on your sampler. These include sawtooth, square and pulse waves which can be combined in any number of ways just like any analogue synth. You can then use the sampler's filters, envelope shapers, LFOs and modulation function to turn your sampler into an awesome analogue synth.



Each waveform is multi-sampled (one per octave) and some example programs are also included to show how the waveforms can be used.



SYNTH TOOLKIT (300kB)
http://website.lineone.net/%7Ejonkatz/Toolkit.sit

**End of From other website**

These are S-5000 format, which will load up into the MPC 4000 without any problems.
Now that I've found this, I'll see if I can come up with a Tutorial using them
and give several different programs with different Modulation Programs set up to give
an example of how the 4000 can be use it's synthesis engine. I'll post it to the
Newbie Bible, but thought that I would post these Programs for others to enjoy.


Cheers

Check out that ASR-10 manual it easily explains how to set up and use programs as synths and just transfer your knowledge to the 4k.

Even that Aksys program default adsr envelopes is much clearer. I call and Akai is considering to make a more comprehensive manual after I send in the asf-10 pdf manual by email.

This is a 1yr old post now but still relevent if you want to get more out of your MPC 4000. I have been fooling with my little groovebox since Christmas and the properties of synthesis I learned on a simple dj setup I transferred back to the 4k. Big up to Adrian, regardbliss, and others that made this post possible. To the newbies you have a monster on your hands.

P.S. the post from above was two yrs ago check the date I haven`t talked to Audio Pro Japan since Nov 2004 about the guide.

i sampled all the basic wavforms from my triton; well, some of them arent basic, but all the "rom sounds" that are the building blocks to the patches. I think there is about 400 of them. I havent looped them up yet, but basically i can recreate those triton sounds with the mpc4k.

Alot of the triton patches arent too far off of what you can do inside the mpc4k with those same rom samples.

I wish this forum had more serious discussions like this one. I have been doing this on my XL for years... but always wanted a Z engine to really test it out because of the reasons pointed out in the first post. Good to hear others are taking advantage of the sampler's powers (whereas most people with an MPC only use it to chop loops). I sampled a bunch of minimoog waveforms and it made for a great way to add a bass line while the rest of the gear isn't hooked up. You don't need to multisample as much when looping basic waveforms since they are repeating and don't have fine details in the wave.

If you are sampling rom sounds from something like a triton, you are probably sampling full samples, not single cycle waveforms (like a sawtooth or sine wave). That is not really the point of this thread and is not analog synth modeling. You have to mutisample for things like that since when the pitch changes, the length of the sample changes (and the character of the sound will go off). I only wish the Z had the sampling ability of the Veriphrase engine which would keep you from having to multisample (as well as a ton of other uses, esecially real time tempo changes on loops).

Guess I went about this a lil weird. I multisamped my whole 5080, I am getting ready to start on the cards..... And next the motief.....Than they can all e sold shot and auctioned, cuase all I really need is my 4000.

Is there a way to get to all the basic waves in these modules?


Yes if there is anyone willig to trade online sonds, I can set it up....

boywithpez007 wrote:mmmmmmmm seperate track lengths.....

triton has that feature it, is a great one indeed!

McSmooth wrote:I wish this forum had more serious discussions like this one. I have been doing this on my XL for years... but always wanted a Z engine to really test it out because of the reasons pointed out in the first post. Good to hear others are taking advantage of the sampler's powers (whereas most people with an MPC only use it to chop loops). I sampled a bunch of minimoog waveforms and it made for a great way to add a bass line while the rest of the gear isn't hooked up. You don't need to multisample as much when looping basic waveforms since they are repeating and don't have fine details in the wave.

If you are sampling rom sounds from something like a triton, you are probably sampling full samples, not single cycle waveforms (like a sawtooth or sine wave). That is not really the point of this thread and is not analog synth modeling. You have to mutisample for things like that since when the pitch changes, the length of the sample changes (and the character of the sound will go off). I only wish the Z had the sampling ability of the Veriphrase engine which would keep you from having to multisample (as well as a ton of other uses, esecially real time tempo changes on loops).

na. I went to a blank patch, turned off all the settings and just sampled the raw rom sounds using one oscillator. They loop perfectly at the ends for infinate sustain. They arent sing cycle waveforms, but they can be used just like them because they have perfect sustain. They are not the presets, they are the rom sound that make up the presets. When they are looped and pitched up or down they still have perfect sustain..........the only ones where there are several samples of the same sound is the piano patches...and those have perfect sustain at the end of the initial attacks. As far as i can tell they all pitch up and down without any noticable wierdness and i havent needed multiple samples.

cyrus wrote:

McSmooth wrote:I wish this forum had more serious discussions like this one. I have been doing this on my XL for years... but always wanted a Z engine to really test it out because of the reasons pointed out in the first post. Good to hear others are taking advantage of the sampler's powers (whereas most people with an MPC only use it to chop loops). I sampled a bunch of minimoog waveforms and it made for a great way to add a bass line while the rest of the gear isn't hooked up. You don't need to multisample as much when looping basic waveforms since they are repeating and don't have fine details in the wave.

If you are sampling rom sounds from something like a triton, you are probably sampling full samples, not single cycle waveforms (like a sawtooth or sine wave). That is not really the point of this thread and is not analog synth modeling. You have to mutisample for things like that since when the pitch changes, the length of the sample changes (and the character of the sound will go off). I only wish the Z had the sampling ability of the Veriphrase engine which would keep you from having to multisample (as well as a ton of other uses, esecially real time tempo changes on loops).

na. I went to a blank patch, turned off all the settings and just sampled the raw rom sounds using one oscillator. They loop perfectly at the ends for infinate sustain. They arent sing cycle waveforms, but they can be used just like them because they have perfect sustain. They are not the presets, they are the rom sound that make up the presets. When they are looped and pitched up or down they still have perfect sustain..........the only ones where there are several samples of the same sound is the piano patches...and those have perfect sustain at the end of the initial attacks. As far as i can tell they all pitch up and down without any noticable wierdness and i havent needed multiple samples.

game recognize game!

cyrus wrote:na. I went to a blank patch, turned off all the settings and just sampled the raw rom sounds using one oscillator. They loop perfectly at the ends for infinate sustain. They arent sing cycle waveforms, but they can be used just like them because they have perfect sustain. They are not the presets, they are the rom sound that make up the presets. When they are looped and pitched up or down they still have perfect sustain..........the only ones where there are several samples of the same sound is the piano patches...and those have perfect sustain at the end of the initial attacks. As far as i can tell they all pitch up and down without any noticable wierdness and i havent needed multiple samples.

Gotcha, not using one shot samples, looping the sustain waveform. Still much different from analog style synthesis, but I know theres a lot you can do with that too with the features on the Z. The difference is that all single cycle waveform will all have exactly the same length at the same pitch and will be very tiny samples. For example, if you sample A4 at 440hz at 44.1k, it should only be about 100 samples long (thats just for example, I'd recomend sampling a lower pitch for better resolution). This gets interesting when you have two of these waveforms (the same or different waves) playing together and one is slightly adjusted or modulated.

The other difference with using a complex waveform with lots of partials (like a piano) is that the formant does not change with pitch change... unless you are using a veriphrase sampler. You don't even really notice it on slight pitch changes, but if you go a few octaves, it can get wierd depending on the sound. Anyway, thats one of the reasons why we use multisamples like what charlieocali is doing, just would make things a lot easier if we didn't need to.

I can't believe you sampled the entire 5080, that must have taken forever! Nice to be able to save it to disk and sell the old gear though. As far as I know, there is no other way to get the sounds in other than sampling them (unless you know how to download the ROM data and take out the PCM waves). If you want the best replication, always best to use digital outs on the plain sounds. Keep in mind that modules like the 5080 use mutliple waveforms on top of each other to derive their patches. If you just want to multisample the patches, you can sample them as is. If you just want the waveforms, you have to enable only one sound, turn off all other parameters and slowly go through each wave in the machine (and possibly multisampling each one). Rarely ever worth all that effort as it would take forever to then reconstruct back to the original patch, might as well keep the module at that point.

McSmooth wrote:I can't believe you sampled the entire 5080, that must have taken forever!

It's actually quite simple to sample an external module, if you use a program like this:

http://www.samplerobot.com/was_b.htm


I've successfully sampled, quite a bit of external gear with this product...

It will build me the patch with the correct loops set, and then I just use Chickensys Translator, to translate it from a Soundfont to a Akai format and there you go...


Cheers,
Dave

Since alot of new users are here I dig this up again good tips and techniques.

HAZE !!, BACK @ IT !! :wink: