Akai

cowbell wrote:What i read from the statement is that they recently sold it with 1.6 and the SeaGate.
That's not the same as getting a new OS one year later and making the old drive not compatible (which i still think would suck).
In this case you get it dysfunctional straight out the box, and Akai tells you you're on your own.

read better.

If you are experiencing problems after updating to version 1.60, you have two options to remedy this situation:

That's how technology is, if you don't like it, go back to cutting tape loops (:

and you sure sound like someone who can't spell "high school"
You're crying right now, which is why you're typing like you are.

give it up. idiot.

samuraisam wrote:read better.

If you are experiencing problems after updating to version 1.60, you have two options to remedy this situation:

That's a small consolation for people who recently bought a DSP24.
Did you already get yourself a HDM10 with HD? Would you talk the same if they announced non of the listed drives are going to work with 2.0 after all?

samuraisam wrote:That's how technology is, if you don't like it, go back to cutting tape loops (:

I might just do that, but it won't be Akai tape

cowbell wrote:

samuraisam wrote:read better.

If you are experiencing problems after updating to version 1.60, you have two options to remedy this situation:

That's a small consolation for people who recently bought a DSP24.
Did you already get yourself a HDM10 with HD? Would you talk the same if they announced non of the listed drives are going to work with 2.0 after all?

samuraisam wrote:That's how technology is, if you don't like it, go back to cutting tape loops (:

I might just do that, but it won't be Akai tape

That is different. Completely and entirely different. That'd be the same if akai sent out DSP24's with dud hard drives as standard, then i'd be pissed, but as it stands, they've given a free update, so you have to update to benefit.

In the Dutch law (europe where i live) this kind of situations are describte as PRODUCT RESPONSABILITY.

This means that a product maker or assambler and retailer have to take responceability about there sold product. And are abligated to deliver a good working product. Consumers do not have to order other componends for there electrical appliances in order to get the machine work properly. If akai does not fix the problem, they are wrong and they f*#& with there consumers.

The mercedes classA had a defective suspension system, they had to take it back, and fixed it. It does not matter if they make the suspension there self, They sell it in a package just like the akai box.. sold as one piece.... now fix it akai!

void107 wrote:In the Dutch law (europe where i live) this kind of situations are describte as PRODUCT RESPONSABILITY.

This means that a product maker or assambler and retailer have to take responceability about there sold product. And are abligated to deliver a good working product. Consumers do not have to order other componends for there electrical appliances in order to get the machine work properly. If akai does not fix the problem, they are wrong and they f*#& with there consumers.

The mercedes classA had a defective suspension system, they had to take it back, and fixed it. It does not matter if they make the suspension there self, They sell it in a package just like the akai box.. sold as one piece.... now fix it akai!

I suggest you read properly.

The machines work perfectly fine when bought, only after an OS upgrade do they not work properly. The DPS24 works perfectly fine, they have provided a free software upgrade to better the users experience, and you have to upgrade the hard disk as a result, don't like it? don't use their free update.

samuraisam wrote:That is different. Completely and entirely different. That'd be the same if akai sent out DSP24's with dud hard drives as standard, then i'd be pissed, but as it stands, they've given a free update, so you have to update to benefit.

Why is it so different? You can use 2GB of the HD with 1.0.7, if you want to have al the features of 2.0 you'll have to get a new HD.

The only difference is they are selling the DSP24 with the SeaGate as we speak. The latest OS update is from October last year. Everyone would want to put the latest OS on their machine. Then you'll have to throw away the SeaGate and buy a new HD right after you got the DSP.

cowbell wrote:

samuraisam wrote:That is different. Completely and entirely different. That'd be the same if akai sent out DSP24's with dud hard drives as standard, then i'd be pissed, but as it stands, they've given a free update, so you have to update to benefit.

Why is it so different? You can use 2GB of the HD with 1.0.7, if you want to have al the features of 2.0 you'll have to get a new HD.

The only difference is they are selling the DSP24 with the SeaGate as we speak. Everyone would want to put the latest OS on their machine. Then you'll have to throw away the SeaGate and buy a new HD right after you got the DSP.

Because the HD is an add on. And we're to expect OS 2 any day now, so hopefully we'll get it (:

All i'm saying it that you're all wasting a lot of time losing sleep over this, the DSP24 in particular; trust me when i say that there are a LOT worse companies out there, not that there has to be, it's just the way it is.
For instance the ISP, Etisalat for the United Arab Emirates, where i used to live;
it was 190 dhs a month for the cheapest connection (256 down 128 up), then one day, they upgrade everyone for free, turning the 256 into 512, and they charge like 20 dhs extra a month, people got pissed, called them up and asked to go back to their old connection, and the ISP enforces a charge of 100 dhs for any downgrade, even though they never even asked for the upgrade in the first place.

I could make a list several pages long of shit that doesn't work properly, at least AKAI is providing a product that works on arrival, be thankful for that.

There was a similar issue with a Fostex recorder some time ago, i got a letter from their distributor telling me i could have it fixed for free if i wanted (this was outside warranty). So there are different ways of handeling things and in this case it's crystal clear to me.

From Akai's Website;

"The DPS24 was shipping with the SeaGate ST380021A hard drive. SeaGate recently changed the firmware on this hard drive model, without alerting manufacturers like ourselves, which makes the drive incompatible with OS version 1.60"

In which case my take is that they should fix it as they were shipping it with a defective part.

Its quite a clear cut case in my opinion and I;

samuraisam wrote:The DPS24 works perfectly fine, they have provided a free software upgrade to better the users experience, and you have to upgrade the hard disk as a result, don't like it? don't use their free update.

A firmware upgrade usually not only updates features and the general user experience, but also irons out any glitches / problems that users have encountered in previous firmware updates.

You say "Don't like it, don't use their free upgrade". Well in reality the upgrade is not free, in with the price of your product AKAI will take a proportion of the sale and put it towards their overheads, i.e Customer Service, R&D, etc etc.

Nothing in life is ever free when it comes to consumer goods and to cut a long post short, DPS24 owners have paid for the service in the first instance of buying the product. In light of that they are entitled to expect better from a company shipping a product with a defective part.

Again, just my two pennies worth...... Take it with a pinch of salt

Sounds to me like SamuraiSam quite enjoys getting shafted on a regular basis. Why do you think it's acceptable for Akai's customers to have to spend extra money on a product which, eventually, becomes obsolete?

It really wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of conspiracy between Akai and Seagate!

Seagate: "We need to sell a few more of our HD's this year."

Akai: "Well, why don't we make the current batch of HDs that are sold with the 1k incompatible with any of our future OS updates? Those chiefs are gonna have to fork out for some new HDs eventually! Who's gonna want to run an old OS on their 1k?"

Seagate: "Genius! We're gonna get so much money for this! Here's your big fat cheque. Where do you want to put your big fat c0ck? In my mouth or in my anus?"

Akai: "In your anus. Some guy called SamuraiSam on the MPC forums highly recommends it. Let me just get my Viagra out first."

I expect much criticism for this. Let's just be clear about one thing. Akai are shafting their customers something chronic. Don't tell me I've misread what's been stated. It's obvious that this really isn't the right way to do business, or to secure return customers for your products. Akai are also screwing themselves with this behaviour.

If you wanna be lame, and accept this as 'just the way it is', then fine. Tell somebody you know about what's going on with OS updates and HDs and they'll think Akai is in the wrong, guaranteed.

Peace.

Lets be sensible and return to a freindly debate please.....

We all have differing opinions and samuraisam shouldn't be critisised because his views are different to ours.

There are pros and cons to each argument, he has raised one or two valid points, so have we.

Lets just keep things civil

pdx2000 wrote:Sounds to me like SamuraiSam quite enjoys getting shafted on a regular basis. Why do you think it's acceptable for Akai's customers to have to spend extra money on a product which, eventually, becomes obsolete?

It really wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of conspiracy between Akai and Seagate!

Seagate: "We need to sell a few more of our HD's this year."

Akai: "Well, why don't we make the current batch of HDs that are sold with the 1k incompatible with any of our future OS updates? Those chiefs are gonna have to fork out for some new HDs eventually! Who's gonna want to run an old OS on their 1k?"

Seagate: "Genius! We're gonna get so much money for this! Here's your big fat cheque. Where do you want to put your big fat c0ck? In my mouth or in my anus?"

Akai: "In your anus. Some guy called SamuraiSam on the MPC forums highly recommends it. Let me just get my Viagra out first."

I expect much criticism for this. Let's just be clear about one thing. Akai are shafting their customers something chronic. Don't tell me I've misread what's been stated. It's obvious that this really isn't the right way to do business, or to secure return customers for your products. Akai are also screwing themselves with this behaviour.

If you wanna be lame, and accept this as 'just the way it is', then fine. Tell somebody you know about what's going on with OS updates and HDs and they'll think Akai is in the wrong, guaranteed.

Peace.

As you've quoted me, and obviously misunderstood what my point is; I didn't say it was right.
All i'm saying is everyone is wasting a damn lot of energy venting on here, we only need to hear about it once, if you really want to do something, don't buy AKAI products in the future, probably not worth it, but report them to the BBB, etc etc etc.

And you really are dim.
Seagate must sell hundreds upon thousands of hard drives on a day to day basis, how many DSP24's do you think akai has sold in it's entire product span say it is 10,000, that would be such a little figure for seagate to worry about.

nate247 wrote:From Akai's Website;

"The DPS24 was shipping with the SeaGate ST380021A hard drive. SeaGate recently changed the firmware on this hard drive model, without alerting manufacturers like ourselves, which makes the drive incompatible with OS version 1.60"

In which case my take is that they should fix it as they were shipping it with a defective part.

Its quite a clear cut case in my opinion and I;

samuraisam wrote:The DPS24 works perfectly fine, they have provided a free software upgrade to better the users experience, and you have to upgrade the hard disk as a result, don't like it? don't use their free update.

A firmware upgrade usually not only updates features and the general user experience, but also irons out any glitches / problems that users have encountered in previous firmware updates.

You say "Don't like it, don't use their free upgrade". Well in reality the upgrade is not free, in with the price of your product AKAI will take a proportion of the sale and put it towards their overheads, i.e Customer Service, R&D, etc etc.

Nothing in life is ever free when it comes to consumer goods and to cut a long post short, DPS24 owners have paid for the service in the first instance of buying the product. In light of that they are entitled to expect better from a company shipping a product with a defective part.

Again, just my two pennies worth...... Take it with a pinch of salt

You have it wrong.
The part is not defective, it is incompatible.
What would you do if you were AKAI? start handing out 10,000 free hard disks? AKAI paid for the hard disks with expectations that they'd be the same, seagate changed the hard-disks without informing akai, so akai is stuck with a few thousand units. Akai got shafted by seagate, and as a result, we got shafted by akai.
MPC and DSP users paid for what they got with the hope of future OS updates, what would everyone be saying if AKAI didn't update any of it's products?

Think pdx2000's post was meant in a tounge and cheek manner, at least I hope it was as otherwise I am inclined to agree about AKAI's supply needs being very small fry in the grand scheme of things.

But back on topic, AKAI, sort it out. I am a loyal customer, don't wanna look elsewhere but in a time where they have more competition than ever I think they need to tread a little more carefully than they have on this occasion.