MAJOR PROBLEM---I STILL NEED HELP

Okay...this is crazy. I am a previous R8 user gone Akai MPC2500 and I love it. I am a Dumbek player who has crossed over into the Western World. I use the MPC2500 as my companion and (http://www.TonyBahu.com) and play strictly in live environments.

Prior to purchasing the MPC2500 I was using the R8. ONe song I would faithfully do in every performance was Shakira---Hips Don't Lie. The BPM for that song is 100. I did it numerous times very flawlessly. However, since I switched to the Akai MPC2500, I recently had a show and began to perform the same song with my MPC2500 at the same tempo (100 BPM). Now, after less than 1 minute into the song, I was slightly off after having a perfect beginning (the MPC2500 seemed to be a little slow). By the end of the song, I was even more off. I reset it before it became an issue to the general audience.

So I called tech support at Akai and asked them if the timing could be off...they said it wasn't possible since it was electronic timing. However, I tried to syc with the Shakira song at home and the same thing happened. I let the whole song run and by the end, I was off again (once again, the MPC2500 fell behind). I am telling you that I was off because I want you to understand that 100 IS definitely the BPM. I even tried 99 and 101 and they were definitely WORSE.

So following that, I pulled out my old R8. I ran the two and got them synced up (manually) perfectly at 100 BPM on both machines. After about 1 minute into it, the MPC2500 seemed to be slightly behind (once again). After a little bit longer, it was even more behind. BOTH MACHINES WERE AT 100 BPM.

My Akai was def. the problem. I have used the R8 religously for years and NEVER had this issue.

Has anyone heard of this issue or problem? Does anyone know what this could be? I am so confused and I have a MAJOR show on Thursday and MUST solve my problem...Please HELP ME!!!!!

most machines at the same bpm will not runn perfectly together when not midi.

mpc 2kxl and triton when at the same bmp don't run perfect.

you need to midi up stuff to get the timing runnin from only 1 machine then all will be sync'd to that master machine.

I STILL NEED HELP!!!

That still doesn't explain why I can't run the MPC with the SAME song I ran the R8 with for so many times...I have ran the R* also with my friends keyboard with no Midi and NO PROBLEM.

(By the way, I thought BPM was universal)

I'm telling you, I may not be an MPC expert but I have great timing and something wierd is going on...

ANY BETTER/OTHER EXPLANATIONS???

It seems like beats per minute would be a relatively universal thing... i mean.. all its doing is telling you how many beats fit into one minute when played at that particular tempo...


I think Lampdog is right.. but, its just weird to me that it would be off like that on different machines





ronJ

tonybahu wrote:Prior to purchasing the MPC2500 I was using the R8. ONe song I would faithfully do in every performance was Shakira---Hips Don't Lie. The BPM for that song is 100. I did it numerous times very flawlessly. However, since I switched to the Akai MPC2500, I recently had a show and began to perform the same song with my MPC2500 at the same tempo (100 BPM). Now, after less than 1 minute into the song, I was slightly off after having a perfect beginning (the MPC2500 seemed to be a little slow).

I don't quite understand how you perform...what does the MPC play? What exactly are you off with after 1 minute? Are you singing, playing an instrument? When you are playing along the beat of the MPC, why can you be off at all? Wouldn't you just naturally keep up with the beat?

_Stilo_ wrote:

tonybahu wrote:Prior to purchasing the MPC2500 I was using the R8. ONe song I would faithfully do in every performance was Shakira---Hips Don't Lie. The BPM for that song is 100. I did it numerous times very flawlessly. However, since I switched to the Akai MPC2500, I recently had a show and began to perform the same song with my MPC2500 at the same tempo (100 BPM). Now, after less than 1 minute into the song, I was slightly off after having a perfect beginning (the MPC2500 seemed to be a little slow).

I don't quite understand how you perform...what does the MPC play? What exactly are you off with after 1 minute? Are you singing, playing an instrument? When you are playing along the beat of the MPC, why can you be off at all? Wouldn't you just naturally keep up with the beat?

That's my question also but yes there is a thread i remember seeing here about the timing falling off. I dont know if there was a solution to the problem but you may want to do a search. I havnt notice any problems with my mp as far as timing is concerned. Try another song at another tempo and see if it is only around 100bpm or is all around, Im curious to know. I think there was some mention of timing at a certain tempo in the other thread.

Hmm, I got an R8 at home. When I get back I will run them together and see what is what.

I would of thought that as long as you set one, device to be the master, and the others to slaves, then all would be good.

The MIDI data would reset the timing each Bar wouldn't it?

Maybe the MPC doesn't like Shakira!!!



But saying that the R8 is well old now - have you had it serviced recently? It could be that youve been using a dodgy R8 for so long now your timing is off slightly. If you see what I mean.

Dablunt---Be very interested to see what you find out.

To all---I don't know...it's pretty wierd. However, here is the thing. I took the entire Shakira song as a sample and laid it as a sequence. Following that, I trimmed the front end. After that, I checked the tempo and it said 100.

So I set the tempo to 100 and laid beats on top of it and it worked??? Very strange because when I plaid the SAME song on my MP3 player and ran the Akai at 100 BPM, it wouldn't stay on time with it???

Well, maybe laying it as a sequence had something to do with it, but at this point, as long as it works, I don't care!

IF anyone has some insight, please comment.

For those of you who don't understand what I do, I just MANUALLY sync my MAchine with whatever is playing and it often works...sometimes, it doesn't with certain tracks but it often does. I just pick my songs in advance.

However, doing it this way (laying it down directly on the MPC and putting the beats on top of it) is AWESOME. I can make my own rendition of these songs for my use. It works well...yeah, takes up TONS of memory and I can only load 1 song at a time, but it is totally perfect.

Peace Out!!!

tonybahu wrote:To all---I don't know...it's pretty wierd. However, here is the thing. I took the entire Shakira song as a sample and laid it as a sequence. Following that, I trimmed the front end. After that, I checked the tempo and it said 100.

So I set the tempo to 100 and laid beats on top of it and it worked??? Very strange because when I plaid the SAME song on my MP3 player and ran the Akai at 100 BPM, it wouldn't stay on time with it???

So you formerly tried to "sync" your MPC to your MP3 player playing the song? Doing that manually is indeed tricky. I'm starting to understand...
Laying that song on 01.01.00 now only helps you to start the song and the MPC's sequencer at the exact same time.

What could be useful for the way you perform, if you have the bucks, might be this:
http://www.roland.com/products/en/RC-50/index.html

That would allow you to sample songs in (actually more than one in that new version), and start them synced via MIDI. That would relieve your MPC's memory, if you need to play several songs. And it has USB!!!


Peace,
Stilo.

Ableton is for live performance. You could trigger your loops or tracks with a Akai MPD24.

yes bpm is SUPPOSED to be universal, but every piece of gear might have a different 1 or 0 here instaed of there, and albeit minor, in due time, it will start to drift. you know like two different cars might have the same MPG rating, but in actual practice they are inevitably going to be a little different. its the same thing with electronics, only much smaller and minute values.

anyway you shouldnt have trouble syncing it...there are a bunch of ways.

1) continue to use the R8 as a master device, and slave the mpc's tempo to that.

2) start using a cd turntable or something that has pitch adjustment or bend, so you can manually change the speed of the shakira song (djs do this all the time).

3) try making a finer adjustment to your mpc tuning....100.1 or 100.2 or something like that.

4) manually change the speed of yer mpc in real time, again, just like a dj and a record. i have done this before with another drum machine, and while it takes a while to get used to it, 'riding the pitch' as we call it is a VERY handy skill to have. basically, if you hear it slowing down, speed it up for a second, then bring it back to normal. if it is too far ahead, slow it down a few bpms for a second, then bring it back to normal.

5) really get creative and just cut out pieces of this shakira song, and remix it in the mpc. that would be a lot cooler than just playing over a pre-recorded song from someone else.

hope that helps, but yea basically trying to hit play on ANY two devices and hope that they stay in sync for longer than a few minutes is a pretty tough task. especially with very rigid control of values like on an mpc. this is why technics are still so revered, precision.

Yes, all of these are great suggestions and I appreciate that. Believe it or not, the best solution I have found is to bring it in as a sample. Yes, it's long (37MB for the whole song). However, I load it in and when I am done, just clear the memory and bring whatever else in that I want to bring. IT works great.

And, I used the Akai as the slave to the R8 and that worked well also.

Thanks for all of the help everyone!

make sure the tempo & groove on the Dumbek are set to 100.

tony you can REALLY rock that dumbek. i hope you get in touch with her because you are really good. what do you use the r8 or mpc for?

Nogginj---thanks.

I actually do perform live with my rhythm machines. I write stuff and perform live at Night Clubs, Casinos. In fact, I have the whole Shakira song as a Sequence that I play live while playing the Dumbek.

I have been playing for 22 years and have 'Westernized'. I have my best work yet to be put up on the site. I am trying to get discovered...I want to get to the big stage and I know it's out there.

Thanks for your compliments and spread the word---

Tony Bahu
'Rock to the Dumbek'