how to build a breakbeat song like tobin,square.step by step

salut! hi !! i just want how to build a breakbeat song like amon tobin or squarepusher?how much measures for a song(intro,theme,etc..),should i begin sequencing melodies or break drum,or keep drum programming for arrangement?what the length of couplet and theme sequence(8,16....)ideal for that style of music?!!! if you can give me some tips about that style of production ,thats very coolll thankz a lottt :!! -aaazzzzaaiiiiii---

are you taking the piss? you cant be serious.

not even their own songs have a "template" so youre out of luck there, you will need some TALENT to write stuff like squarepusher and amon without sounding like the other million people trying to sound like them.


the same with prefuse73 style, use the 16 slice of the mpc a lot on breaks loops, which saves time programming those odd cuts. like anything, listen to their stuff losely and take notes.


you could always be like the other million people chopping the Amen break up to hell with little japanese girl fx or something.

I cant really offer you any good advise but I suggest you listen to their song and decypher it... Thats how I learned how to make dnb,hiphop drum patterns....

you dont want to do that... these cats write experimental hip-hop and copying someones experiment is like eating fat-free cake... why would anyone want to hear a "version" of prefuse done by a cat that isnt prefuse.

if you just want that experimental hip-hop sound though, you should learn (in order) a) how to make a "normal" hip-hop beat and then b) fcuk it up! in other words, experiment...

too often people want to move right in to experimental without understanding the fundamentals. if you just want to make noise music, thats fine, but prefuse and tobin have a good understanding of melody and rhythm fundamentals (read any interview with either of them if you dont believe me). thats what makes the music they make listenable...

peace

Im pretty sure when you started you tried to emulate your idol???
Let him copy those guys, hes just training its not like hell sell a beat right away

yeah, I think everybody looks up to someone and wants to know their tricks and how they do certain things, not to bite but to expand...nothin wrong with that...I read squarepusher does alot of his beat work in step edit and that he really did his homework learnin all the ins and outs of this...that'd probably be a good place to start...

shyda wrote:Im pretty sure when you started you tried to emulate your idol???
Let him copy those guys, hes just training its not like hell sell a beat right away

yeah but charles bukowski doesnt record hip hop.

please dont misunderstand me: Im all about emmulating, or even taking ideas wholesale from tracks I like.... but recreating step by step?
no... all you'll get is a pale imitation.

that artists mentioned are known for thier originality and experimentation, thus I think trying to re-create them misses the point.

so I stand by what i said before: a) learn how to make a regular old drum beat (ie the fundamentals) and then B) experiment. See what I mean?

that artists mentioned are known for thier originality and experimentation, thus I think trying to re-create them misses the point.

i love when people try to tell other people what they should be doing or how they should do it.

if he has a way he wants to learn, who are you to tell him not to learn that way? so sorry we didn't all fall out of the womb as natural geniuses like you...

get over yourself. let the guy do what he wants. he bought the MPC. hell, even if he wants to use it as a simple metronome who are we (or anybody) to say he should or shouldn't.

way too many people think they know what's right and what isn't. i'll say it one more time:

get over yourself.




oh, and by the way...

you could always be like the other million people chopping the Amen break up to hell with little japanese girl fx or something.

(homer simpson)

mmmm... little japanese girl FX...

mmmmm.....

(/homer simpson)

yeah... i guess im just not making myself clear... i am not trying to tell anyone what to do (at least that wasnt my intention). if i came of that way, well, what can i say?

oh well. I'll go get over myself now, i guess.

hey man,
it is true that there isnt really a template, entire songs are variations. i think the best thing to do is experiment. ultimately while trying to emulate you will stuble on to new sounds and different ways to do things. eventually you will settle into your style and your method. for instance i started trying to figure out all those guys to but my setup now is a laptop, and mpc and load of effects live and i havnt really seen the same setup used by any of those guys. your own experiences and creativity will shape your music even if you are trying to emulate.

some things you should definitly get/experiment with to play with sounds i think you are after:
filters, time stretching, old analogue synths, pitch shifting, delays, distortion, feedback, bit crushers

all that is just a start, best thing to do, just start programming and playing, something will come of it.

cory

salut!!thankz for all the ideas! but my english is quite bad also .... when i tell "step by step" im talk about the processus of composition in general for that "kind of music",if you prefer ,the breabeat compositions rules!it not to copy,its emulation to learn tchnics and after create his own langage,i have to appropriate myself a lot of mix or programmation technics to explain myself fully,nearest to my imagination!!(the biggest stars on this **** earth learn methods and technics in the shadow of their idol,and after they created their own world, try to be simple et "modeste" ;its a big challenge for me to understand what tobin and pusher do their stuff,very interesting for a best understanding of electro composition and production!!(marley,brown;etc.3..they was fan of doowap after beatles and dylan for marley and hendrix alsoi.... for me emulation at beginning its a way to learn music!! im autodidacte(selfmademan) i play guitar;bass ;drum;bit of pizano:! its my way to work! with my ears!! -aaaazzzzaiiii--

salut!!thankz for all the ideas! but my english is quite bad also .... when i tell "step by step" im talk about the processus of composition in general for that "kind of music",if you prefer ,the breabeat compositions rules!it not to copy,its emulation to learn tchnics and after create his own langage,i have to appropriate myself a lot of mix or programmation technics to explain myself fully,nearest to my imagination!!(the biggest stars on this **** earth learn methods and technics in the shadow of their idol,and after they created their own world, try to be simple et "modeste" ;its a big challenge for me to understand what tobin and pusher do their stuff,very interesting for a best understanding of electro composition and production!!(marley,brown;etc.3..they was fan of doowap after beatles and dylan for marley and hendrix alsoi.... for me emulation at beginning its a way to learn music!! im autodidacte(selfmademan) i play guitar;bass ;drum;bit of pizano:! its my way to work! with my ears!! -aaaazzzzaiiii--

i see what you are saying know... you just threw me off with that step by step comment... i had this horrible image of someone wanting to just re-create exactly someone elses sound.

no hard feelings... heres some links to get you started:

[url]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Apr03/articles/amontobin.asp?session=387d50db926735a7c32e5d4fbc6094a3

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Mar02/a ... 4fbc6094a3

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/May02/a ... 4fbc6094a3

http://www.furious.com/perfect/squarepusher.html[/url]

cheers