Sampling Drum Sounds?

I was reading through some of these topics. . and one mentioned something about having to pay even for sampling drum sounds from a record. . Just need to be clear on this matter..

1)Is this really true?

2)Can you actually get in trouble for using the drum sounds of lets say another producer? Also, would using them in the same way as heard before or tweaking up the sounds factor into all of this?

Thanks in advance for the help!!

Technically sampling anybodys work requires clearance. But how many artists can tell if it's thier drum vs. another band. And the ones who can, how many people will actually listen. So i wouldn't worry particularly. There are some fallacies that you can use X number of seconds and your fine. Some say 1, some say 3, but it is untrue. Use your judgement but also be realistic in terms of "will the original artist here your music," "will the original artist know it's theirs," "and will someone be able to make money of a lawsuit if they do." I read about a case where someone got sued for using a silent track. A track with nothing but silence. Another band did it first, it was copywritten, and they won. So even silence is copywritten. Crazy world. If you are concerned, there are so many royalty free drums out there.

u dont need to clear drum sounds because u can only copyright melodies so even if they knew it was they drums they couldnt do anything james browns drummer has been sampled a million times never pad his name is clyde stubblefield by the way he's supposedly the most sampled drummer on earth but any u can only copy right melodies not drums

Then why are ther Copywritten Drum kits then?

You can't copyright an individual sound. But, you can copyright any original arrangement of sounds that has become affixed to a physical medium.


So, you cannot sample a breakbeat without clearing it. But, you can sample any individual kick or snare or hat from a breakbeat and not have to clear it. However, if you sample all those individual sounds and then play them back in the exact same rhythm as the breakbeat, you're still using that beat... and would have to clear it... at least in theory...



Its absurd to think you can't copyright drum rhythms but you can copyright piano melodies. If its a creative, original work and its on a tape or cd somewhere... its copyrighted. Period.





ronJ

Ajax wrote:
Its absurd to think you can't copyright drum rhythms but you can copyright piano melodies. If its a creative, original work and its on a tape or cd somewhere... its copyrighted. Period.

maybe it's absurd - but maybe not !!

If you think about it - there's a reason for this.

You also can't copyright chord progressions - and there are alot famous ones that have been used over and over in different hit songs.


IF someone could copyright a drum"rythm" - then the person would be able to "copyright" a whole genre.

What would have happened it the first ones in jamaika who started reggae would have copyrighted the famous reggae rythms? And you can apply this example to any genre.

Bam, as soon as the new genre started - it already drowned because there's only one band that can legally play it - and even more important - develop it.

Drum's are the "main" rythm section in music - and most of the time they tell which genre you hear.

Also bass and guitar rythms within themselves and such.


BUT if you COMBINE those different elements to one song/beat that has a strong recognition value - than you can copyright it as a "work".

And every "work" by an artist that is recorded is technically copyrighted - because the recording itself is the work and can not be used without permission of the artist.

So in most cases if you use single drum hits from records and mangle them thru effects and compressor - no one can tell from where those sounds came from and the chance getting caught is very minimal.

If you use a whole break than it's much easier to tell where you got it from - and if the artist or any associated party get a hold of you - then you likely will have to pay the price.

Yeah.. I might have been a bit too forceful with my comments. But, I just wanted to make sure the point was made.. that it doesnt matter what type of sound you use.. i mean.. you could copyright slapping your dick against a table in a particular rhythm if it made a sound that was original and creative and you recorded it..


Ya know what Im saying? Its not the type of sound that matters. Its whether its sufficiently original to warrant protection.


So, James Brown's drummer (or whoever owned the copyright in those songs) absolutely owned or could have owned a copyright in those tracks. If they were sampled wholesale, then he would have gotten paid.



When it all comes down to it, as a parctical matter, a lot of the inquiry has to do with whether you can show that the particular work was original...different from others before it... a lot of drum rhythms wont be original.. because there are only so many boom bap combos out there... but, in theory, it doesnt matter...as long as its original.





ronJ

Reading through this has been trully insightful.

So what ya´ll saying is that let´s say I took a snare drum from a record be it vinyl or regular sample cd, then I wouldn´t need to clear that sample, right?

As a practical matter, no.



ronJ

buy a book and learn about sampling, publishing, and copyrights.....read, shit

thematterlp wrote:buy a book and learn about sampling, publishing, and copyrights.....read, ****

Or we can also hope that the more wise once in here can contribute their wealth of knowledge, right?

When sampling someone elses recording it is always illeagal (unless one has concent or licence to do so)...

a melody, a riff, a note, a hit, even the air on the record is copywritten!!

Why = the Recording is copywritten!

duuduumm ....

Of course.


But, I can guarantee you that no artist is going to be able to pick out a snare from some record ten years ago. So, as a practical matter, you wouldnt need to clear it. Because noone could ever enforce it.




ronJ

like say MPC = sampling drum machine, do all mpc drums come from the bear showerd drum kit in the gerage, nhaa...we all use eachothers drums we all sample them from someone else...

if no one can spot it, its Technically leagal

I think some people forget that there are two copyrights to a release: the underlying composition and the recording itself. That's why it's typically not just a matter of getting the artist to sign off on it, but also the original label (unless of course the artist owns said recording).

So, yes, technically they COULD go after you for a recognizable drum hit, but it rarely happens.

Oh, and not everybody gets their drums from other people. There are tons that sample their own drum kits and manipulate those sounds.
Peace