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By Krux Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:53 am
Not a great article but if you got a free minute...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/16/fashi ... ref=slogin


July 16, 2006
The Graying of the Record Store
By ALEX WILLIAMS
SO this is an evening rush?

On a recent Monday, six people — soon enough four, then two — were browsing the bins of compact discs at Norman’s Sound and Vision, a music store on Cooper Square in Manhattan, around 6 p.m., a time that once constituted the daily rush hour. A decade ago, the number of shoppers might have been 20 or 30, said Norman Isaacs, the owner. Six people? He would have had that many working in the store.

“I used to make more in a day than I probably make in a week now,” said the shaven-headed Mr. Isaacs, 59, whose largely empty aisles brimming with punk, jazz, Latin music, and lots and lots of classic rock have left him, many afternoons, looking like a rock ’n’ roll version of the Maytag repairman. Just as troubling to Mr. Isaacs is the age of his clientele.

“It’s much grayer,” he said mournfully.

The neighborhood record store was once a clubhouse for teenagers, a place to escape parents, burn allowances and absorb the latest trends in fashion as well as music. But these days it is fast becoming a temple of nostalgia for shoppers old enough to remember “Frampton Comes Alive!’’

In the era of iTunes and MySpace, the customer base that still thinks of recorded music as a physical commodity (that is, a CD), as opposed to a digital file to be downloaded, is shrinking and aging, further imperiling record stores already under pressure from mass-market discounters like Best Buy and Wal-Mart.

The bite that downloading has taken out of CD sales is well known — the compact disc market fell about 25 percent between 1999 and 2005, according to the Recording Industry Association of America, a trade organization. What that precipitous drop indicated by the figures doesn’t reveal is that this trend is turning many record stores into haunts for the gray-ponytail set. This is especially true of big-city stores that stock a wider range of music than the blockbuster acts.

“We don’t see the kids anymore,” said Thom Spennato, who owns Sound Track, a cozy store on busy Seventh Avenue in Park Slope, Brooklyn. “That 12-to-15-year-old market, that’s what’s missing the last couple of years.”

Without that generation of buyers, the future looks bleak. “My landlord asked me if I wanted another 10-year lease, and I said no,” Mr. Spennato said. “I have four years left, then I’m out.”

Since late 2003, about 900 independent record stores have closed nationwide, leaving about 2,700, according to the Almighty Institute of Music Retail, a marketing research company in Studio City, Calif. In 2004, Tower Records, one of the nation’s largest chains, filed for bankruptcy protection.

Greta Perr, an owner of Future Legends, a new and used CD store on Ninth Avenue in Hell’s Kitchen, said that young people never really came back to her store after the Napster file-sharing upheaval of the late 90’s; she has responded by filling her windows with artists like Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen. “People come in and say: ‘I remember when I was 20, Steve Miller’s second record came out. Can I get that?’ ” she said.

Industry statistics bear out the graying of the CD-buying public. Purchases by shoppers between ages 15 and 19 represented 12 percent of recorded music in 2005, a decline from about 17 percent in 1996, according to the Recording Industry Association. Purchases by those 20 to 24 represented less than 13 percent in 2005, down from about 15 percent. Over the same period, the share of recorded music bought by adults over 45 rose to 25.5 percent, from 15 percent.

(The figures include CD’s and downloaded songs, with CD’s still an overwhelming share of the market in recorded music, 87 percent, in 2005.)

The dominance of older buyers is especially evident at smaller independent stores in metropolitan areas, where younger consumers tend to be more tech-oriented and older music fans tend to be more esoteric in their tastes, said Russ Crupnick, an analyst with the NPD Group, a market research firm.

At Norman’s, which is 15 years old and just around the corner from New York’s epicenter of punk, St. Marks Place, shoppers with nose rings and dewy cheeks are not unknown. But they may only be looking to use the automatic teller machine. A pair of teenagers — he with ink-black dyed hair, and she in ragged camouflage shorts — wandered in one evening recently and promptly froze in the doorway, stopped in their tracks by an Isaac Hayes cut from the 70’s.

They had the confused looks of would-be congregants who had stumbled into a church of the wrong denomination; they quickly shuffled off. Most of Norman’s other customers were old enough to remember eight-track tapes. Steven Russo, 53, for instance, was looking for jazz CD’s. Mr. Russo, a high school teacher in Valley Stream, N.Y., said that he values the store for its sense of camaraderie among cognoscenti as much as its selection. “It’s the ability of people to talk to people about the music, to talk to personnel who are knowledgeable,” he said.

Richard Antone, a freelance writer from Newark whose hair was flecked with silver curls, said his weekly trip to the store is a visual experience as well as an auditory one. “I remember how people admired the artwork on an album like ‘Electric Ladyland’ or ‘Sgt. Pepper’ as much as the music,” he said.

The lost generation of young shoppers — for whom a CD is a silvery disc on which you burn your own songs and then label with a black marker — will probably spell doom for Norman’s within the next five years, said Mr. Isaacs, the owner. Several of his downtown competitors have already disappeared, he said.

Some independent owners are resisting the demographic challenges. Eric Levin, 36, who owns three Criminal Records stores in Atlanta and oversees a trade group called the Alliance of Independent Media Stores, representing 30 shops nationally, said that businesses losing young customers are “dinosaurs” that have done nothing to cater to the new generation. Around the country, he said, shops like Grimey’s in Nashville, Shake It Records in Cincinnati and Other Music in New York are hanging on to young customers by evolving into one-stop hipster emporiums. Besides selling obscure CD’s and even vinyl records, many have diversified into comic books, Japanese robot toys and clothing. Some have opened adjoining nightclubs or, in Mr. Levin’s case, coffee shops.

“Kids don’t have to go to the record store like earlier generations,” Mr. Levin said. “You have to make them want to. You have to make it an event.”

But diversification is not always an option for smaller stores with little extra space, like Norman’s. Mr. Isaacs’s continued survival is due in part to a side business he runs selling used CD’s on Amazon and eBay. He buys them from walk-in customers who are often dumping entire collections.

Unlike the threatened independent bookstore, with its tattered rugs, dusty shelves and shedding cats, indie record stores in danger of disappearing do not inspire much hand-wringing, perhaps because they are not as celebrated in popular imagination as the quaint bookshop. (Record geeks can claim only “High Fidelity,’’ the book and movie, as a nostalgic touchstone.)

Still, the passing of such places would be mourned.

Danny Fields, the Ramones’ first manager, points out that visiting Bleecker Bob’s on West Third Street in the late 70’s was “like experiencing the New York music scene” in miniature — it was a cultural locus, a trading post for all the latest punk trends. “Dropping into Bleecker Bob’s was like dropping into CBGB’s,” he said. (You can still drop into Bleecker Bob’s.)

Dave Marsh, the rock critic and author of books on popular music, noted that rockers like Jonathan Richman and Iggy Pop honed their edgy musical tastes working as record store clerks.

“It’s part of the transmission of music,” said Mr. Marsh, who recalls being turned on to cult bands like the Fugs and the Mothers of Invention by the clerks at his local record store in his hometown, Waterford, Mich. “It seems like you can’t have a neighborhood without them.”
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By Lampdog Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:16 am
It's sad. I remember my daily trips to the record shop when I used to have a pair of technic 1200's, back like 20 years ago. YES, 20 years ago.

I went through SO many set of "planet rock" and "egypt egypt" it was crazy. I was buying 4-5 copies of that like every other week.
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By mpc4000xl Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:40 pm
Lampdog wrote:It's sad. I remember my daily trips to the record shop when I used to have a pair of technic 1200's, back like 20 years ago. YES, 20 years ago.

I went through SO many set of "planet rock" and "egypt egypt" it was crazy. I was buying 4-5 copies of that like every other week.








Yep............... The Record Shopz Are Closing or Converting By The Lionshare..................



RUFF VERY RUFF................................


People in NYC Often Talk About "BEAT STREET"

"BEAT STREET" Used To REALLY BE THE SPOT LIKE 10 + Years AGO.........

The main store in BK, NY Had about Twice the Vinyl It Does NOW and The ENTIRE Upper Floor Was DJ gear, Production Stuff and ELECTRONICS.......................

YO They Even Sell Soda...........:shock: downstairs now.......... :!:


"MUSIC FACTORY" was their main comp..........Now the Music Factory stores That Are Still Open In NYC Don't Sell Vinyl...........and Some Hardly Even Sell Equipment OR EVEN CDs.................. :cry:


The Two Main Manhattan Spots BEEEEEEEEN GONE...............



1. Downstairs---(ODD Cause IT WAS UPSTAIRS)..............
YO THE HAD LIKE 300,000 (45) and Mad 12' All Neatly In Category and 2 Turntables..........GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:



2. Music Factory 42St the (ESPN ZONE IS ON THE Corner OF that Block Now) YO that Spot Was GRIMEY---BUT ALL NYC STYLE and They HAD MAD HIPHOP TYPE VINYL FOR SAMPLING AND DJin'..................

EVERYBODY USED 2 GO THERE...........EVERYBODY........ :!: :!: :!: :!:
EPMD..RAKIN..PUBLIC ENEMY..BEASTIE BOYS..YO...........EVERYBODY......................GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This Was My FIRST DIGGIN SPOT and It IS SORELY MISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!



and I Can't EVEN START TALKIN BOUT The SMALLER SPOTS THAT FELL VICTIM......................GOD I HAT EVEN TYOIN' THIS!#@#&^#%^@%$~~



But It is ALL TRUE..............................



:! :evil: :evil: :evil: :!: :
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By dj e.d.e Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:50 pm
yeah this is a sad story.. ...

i have felt that in the last few yrs the younger generation is not involved with music anymore,it's a shame and i know some of you older cats can back me up on this .but when we were kids we would go to the records store and buy the music we heard on the radio or in mix tapes that friends had, that was our contribution to music we would by records for a party or to collect, kids these days dont do that with the ipod thing and mp3's what do they need to go to the music store for ?

i see it the average age of customers that come in to our store is 25 and up , i have yet to see any one younger, my theory is that if your a record store that sells new music you wont make it in this business you will close down fast, but if you sell older music there's more people that will look for older music and your selling to a much more mature audience, the people that come in to our store are either Dj's ,collectors, or people that wont change over to the digital media,
it's sad to see kids brainwashed like this ,this is why they have no attention span anymore or if they do it's about three days,

I'm not saying that we will survive this phenomenon but as long as i run a record store i will try to spread the knowlegde i have of vinyl to the younger generation and will never play anything but vinyl.

i have said it and you guys have prolly not agreed with me but , it will not die and it will come back digital is not for ever ,and theres records that have been around longer then most of us older dudes have been alive.

comps will go down and when they do i will have alot of vinyl for sale .

give serato time it will get a bad name all by it 's self you cant run a comp with out problems for ever.
Last edited by dj e.d.e on Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

By ZAM13 Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:58 am
Downstairs was moved out to long island in lindenhurst for a minute but now he's gone and sold the whole lot of 45's to a japanese buyer and off they went to japan. I would have to make appointments to go diggin and and to spend some $$$ or he would get real crabby. Cool old kat ..I only got through about an 1/8 of the records because you couldn't reach most of it. That place was a goldmine if you had lots of time to sift through it all. That guy was the sickest cratedigger that ever lived, You could humm him a melody and he would name it in like 2 or 3 notes, and then tell you some crazy story of who and where it was recorded...amazing.
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By mpc4000xl Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:43 pm
ZAM13 wrote:Downstairs was moved out to long island in lindenhurst for a minute but now he's gone and sold the whole lot of 45's to a japanese buyer and off they went to japan. I would have to make appointments to go diggin and and to spend some $$$ or he would get real crabby. Cool old kat ..I only got through about an 1/8 of the records because you couldn't reach most of it. That place was a goldmine if you had lots of time to sift through it all. That guy was the sickest cratedigger that ever lived, You could humm him a melody and he would name it in like 2 or 3 notes, and then tell you some crazy story of who and where it was recorded...amazing.



ACTUALLY HE MOVED TO LIKE Near 34St (By MACY'S)..............


Then He Went To LI But IT WAS NEVER THA SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:

By BeatznBooze Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:25 pm
damn. that's a sad story. I'm still digging
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By ryssen Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:54 pm
Am 28 years old, haven´t frequently visited record stores for the last 8-9 years. And no, I don´t download and I don´t listen to mp3´s other than very rarely. I don´t drink, I don´t own a car, I work enough to make enough money too keep me floating and have a little to spare. Most of my cash is spent on records, preferably vinyl.
After I gave up putting my hope to find what I wanted in record stores I have gotten more and better records for my money. All my buys of non used records are now made through mailorders or at gigs. I see only positive aspects of this.

First off, I listen mostly to rather obscure stuff. Records that wasn´t available in the stores in my city or you had to wait a long time for them to stock, often to extra expense. No way to flip through the records in the store, and if you have to wait anyway there´s no point in not order it via the label or a mailorder/distro that carries it.

Buying directly from the labels or small mailorders is usually ridiculously more cheap than the price you would have to cough up in a store for the same record. And that is mostly valid even if I add to each record the price of shipping them overseas from the US to Sweden.

With a credit card and a internet connection you´ll be able to find loads of records and labels that most stores don´t have in their regular distribution feeds and the record owners wouldn´t lift a finger to help you get. No distributor or shop owner are middle hands and sort out what you should have the possibility to listen to or not.

I can miss the record store as a social crossroad, where you met and chatted with others somewhat similar to you in the head. But they got fewer over the years I think.
The modern record store mostly seem like a good way of plugging the same ol´ hits to everybody around the globe. The last line in a monopolistic entertainment industry which basically is no good at all. There´s no diversity or room for thinking outside the brand names in todays stores, as all monocultures you can´t grow the same crops year after year without draining the soil. They deserve this situation as they have been a very active part in creating it.

Small enthusiast stores with integrity will probably be around for a long while yet cause they offer something to it´s customer. They are there for a reason and their customers come to them for a reason. But those 1000´s of stores who try to sell the same 1000 "in-the-moment-or-classics" records to 100 of thousands not really interested in music anyway were a joke from the beginning and will end like they deserve. There´s only so many times you can wrap a turd in plastic and sell it, that goes for Blink 182 or 50 cent as well as Springsteen or Dylan.

Second hand record stores serves a purpose even though many of them are as boring and stereotype as those selling "fresh" records.
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By mpc4000xl Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:00 pm
ryssen wrote:Am 28 years old, haven´t frequently visited record stores for the last 8-9 years. And no, I don´t download and I don´t listen to mp3´s other than very rarely. I don´t drink, I don´t own a car, I work enough to make enough money too keep me floating and have a little to spare. Most of my cash is spent on records, preferably vinyl.
After I gave up putting my hope to find what I wanted in record stores I have gotten more and better records for my money. All my buys of non used records are now made through mailorders or at gigs. I see only positive aspects of this.

First off, I listen mostly to rather obscure stuff. Records that wasn´t available in the stores in my city or you had to wait a long time for them to stock, often to extra expense. No way to flip through the records in the store, and if you have to wait anyway there´s no point in not order it via the label or a mailorder/distro that carries it.

Buying directly from the labels or small mailorders is usually ridiculously more cheap than the price you would have to cough up in a store for the same record. And that is mostly valid even if I add to each record the price of shipping them overseas from the US to Sweden.

With a credit card and a internet connection you´ll be able to find loads of records and labels that most stores don´t have in their regular distribution feeds and the record owners wouldn´t lift a finger to help you get. No distributor or shop owner are middle hands and sort out what you should have the possibility to listen to or not.

I can miss the record store as a social crossroad, where you met and chatted with others somewhat similar to you in the head. But they got fewer over the years I think.
The modern record store mostly seem like a good way of plugging the same ol´ hits to everybody around the globe. The last line in a monopolistic entertainment industry which basically is no good at all. There´s no diversity or room for thinking outside the brand names in todays stores, as all monocultures you can´t grow the same crops year after year without draining the soil. They deserve this situation as they have been a very active part in creating it.

Small enthusiast stores with integrity will probably be around for a long while yet cause they offer something to it´s customer. They are there for a reason and their customers come to them for a reason. But those 1000´s of stores who try to sell the same 1000 "in-the-moment-or-classics" records to 100 of thousands not really interested in music anyway were a joke from the beginning and will end like they deserve. There´s only so many times you can wrap a turd in plastic and sell it, that goes for Blink 182 or 50 cent as well as Springsteen or Dylan.

Second hand record stores serves a purpose even though many of them are as boring and stereotype as those selling "fresh" records.





Did you REALLY SEE THE FIRST POST............................


Most of the Stores I'm Speakin' on Are Small Private owned Spots..............


tho' I Mentioned MUSIC FACTORY and BEAT STREET...............

I Also Said DOWNSTAIRS which Sold Mostly 45s and older Soul ODD ROCK or REGGAE was often the Fair there...........


EDE 's Posted artile talked about Normans's A Small Private Spot.......

with alot of Music And Def. Not For The Trendy Types at All...............


There Is Alot of Crap on Radio BUT THAT WAS NOT What I Was TALKIN' Bout...........




tho' I Do See SOME Of your Point ALOT OF THE SPECIAL SPOTS Are Disappearin'............. :cry:






:!:
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By dj e.d.e Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:51 pm
MPC it' wasnt my post.... but yeah i think some specialty shops are disappearing thats a shame, but they are the only ones who will still supply us with quAilty vinyl in the furture and they will deal only to the few of us that still support this media, beleive me i know... i have my faithful customers that come in once to three times a month why coz they wont find it anywhere else, the corprate places are killing them selfs as you see many places dont even sell CD's anymore, and CD's where to wipe out the records back when i could remember
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By mpc4000xl Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:02 am
dj e.d.e wrote:MPC it' wasnt my post.... but yeah i think some specialty shops are disappearing thats a shame, but they are the only ones who will still supply us with quAilty vinyl in the furture and they will deal only to the few of us that still support this media, beleive me i know... i have my faithful customers that come in once to three times a month why coz they wont find it anywhere else, the corprate places are killing them selfs as you see many places dont even sell CD's anymore, and CD's where to wipe out the records back when i could remember




Whoopz...........it was..............Krux.............
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By Breakzilla Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:14 am
when the record shops here go outta business I'll snatch up their whole inventory at 25 cents a disc :lol:
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By bobbybigbeats Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:42 pm
every year or two i see this article in a major publication: "the death of vinyl." Every year or two since cd's came out... and i'd venture to guess they said the same thing when cassette tapes came out: "vinyl is gonna die."

well, look around...look at those crates in your room, what's currently spinning around on your turntable, look around--it's not dead, it's not gonna die, end of story. Cassettes sounded like crap, that's why they're gone...

you can give me all this "manufactured supply-side trend they decide what I buy" stuff, but it's a crock. Vinyl is alive, just look around!
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By jaem Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:08 pm
dj e.d.e wrote:i have said it and you guys have prolly not agreed with me but , it will not die and it will come back digital is not for ever ,and theres records that have been around longer then most of us older dudes have been alive.

comps will go down and when they do i will have alot of vinyl for sale .

give serato time it will get a bad name all by it 's self you can run a comp with out problems for ever


when you're ready to leave that fantasy world eddie i'll still be here waiting :twisted:
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By dj e.d.e Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:03 am
jaem wrote:
dj e.d.e wrote:i have said it and you guys have prolly not agreed with me but , it will not die and it will come back digital is not for ever ,and theres records that have been around longer then most of us older dudes have been alive.

comps will go down and when they do i will have alot of vinyl for sale .

give serato time it will get a bad name all by it 's self you can run a comp with out problems for ever


when you're ready to leave that fantasy world eddie i'll still be here waiting :twisted:
i knew it .... it's all goood jaem...hahahahaha you know i' aint goin no where