Should I bother clearing samples?

Remember, when it comes to this sort of stuff, it is very hard to sue for more money than you made. This isn't something you can easily sue for outside of financial issues. It's not like its something they can sue your for deflemation of character or emotional distraught, things like that. Someone can try to sue you for much more but it's not going to work. It's just not worth the time, assuming the small chance the original artist does hear it. And you will always take a risk when doing something thats not legal. I look at it this way. Everytime i compose my music...How likely is it that someone has played the same thing in one of my loops, or something similar enough. Espeically basslines. It defineatly can happen and it's the same thing in the end.

baruke wrote:DONT CLEAR ****! TRUST ME!!!! GET A RECORD DEAL FIRST! LET THEM WORRY ABOUT THAT BS> KEEP IT HIP HOP! WE DONT CLEAR **** ON NO MIXTAPE! HIP HOP IS A MIXTAPE!

Most A&R wont even sign you up these days if you have samples. Clearance is a nightmare and no publisher will want to bother with it.

I work at a music publisher and see things like this happen all the time. Once our A&R realises they have too many samples. The deal dies in the water. Im sure the same would apply to record company A&R also.

djdz1 wrote:Yo i was thinking about the same ish for awhile now. I got like 2 or 3 full length lps ready w/lyrics cutz and all. But i don't know how to go about the ish i've sampled to make the instrumentals on these albums. Do i get sample clearance 1st,release it white label underground, chop em up to where it is not as noticable or what? I'm really in need of everybodys help man. How does people like MFdoom and Pete rock do it where no one ever finds out or busts em?I mean i know they get the unheard samples and all but what about the more noticable samples. i.e.-THE METERS or SANTANA, RICK JAMES,FUNKADELIC,MILES DAVIS . How do you go about doing this without all the drama?

I reckon the only way around it is to chop the hell of or disguise everything. If you change it enough that no one can tell, then how can they sue for breach of copyright.

A dope loop or sample is great when you find it.. but if your in fear of it coming back to bite your a33 (see Richard Ashcroft vs Jagger/Richards) then best to drop it chop it till its unrecognisable..

Tricky subject - I stopped sampling for awhile and made beats just using VSTIs and such, but I felt they lacked that true hip hop feel, that, in my opinion, you only get from sampling. I say if you're gonna publish/sell your music, do your best to clear the samples first. I know it sucks because this is how most hip hop producers make beats and this is how its been done for years, but the bottom line is, you are using other people's **** to make beats and they should be legally compensated as such, right?

An alternative maybe?

I read about a company some a few years back that would go about the task of recreating the music to the sample you wanted to use, thus clearing you of any infringement. Although if its the same melody, etc. you'll probably have to pay mechanical rights, which are much cheaper I believe. I can't remember where I read the article, but I think Busta Rhymes used them to recreate that Night Rider theme so he wouldn't have to fork over alot dough to whoever made it.

That would be nice to have a friend in a band or something, that you can give him a record and have the band disect it and match the performance -record it lo-fi, etc. for you to sample, then you can chop the *** out of it, and there you go.

- D

If you get someone to rerecord it you still need publishing clearance as the publisher still owns the copyright of the melody and lyrics.

Rerecording however saves you having to get a second licence (the master licence from the original recording).

As publishers control the melody and lyrics it doesnt matter how you rerecord it or if you use the original, if you use any part of 'their' melody or lyric you have to pay for it.

Happy Birthday isnt in public domain, its copyright is owned and everytime someone sings it in a movie or tv show they have to pay for it.. thats crazy how much they must be pulling in off that track.

Yes, good point, I just figured it would be cheaper to pay for the melody/arrangement than to pay both that and the sound recording. I guess bottom line is, you gotta pay regardless.

Speaking of public domain, I hear US government recordings are public domain. There may be not much out there as far as usable for making beats, but I've used little soundbytes, etc. from old radio spots (50s, 60s) for the Army that are US Gov. produced, under that assumption. It makes sense if its true, we the people pay for that s*** with our taxes.

- D

If possible you should ask a entertainment lawyer. All you need is 15 minutes of his time (which you will pay for) and you will get informed answers to your questions.

Prepare a list of questions in advance, so you are taking full advantage of your consultation. Some entertainment lawyers get $500 an hour, so for $125 you can be rest assured that you got advised properly. That still doesn't mean you have to clear your samples, but you will know the possibilities of what could happen in most circumstances.

Best advice came from dgny - get advice from a lawyer. But in the end I think it's got little to do with the law and more to do with morals, respect & karma - if you want to use other people's work in your own, get their permission and give them credit where it's due. You'd soon be crying and moaning if it were your music that was being used without permission.

morals, respect and karma? sampling? Are we talking about hip hop? Somebody name me a classic hip hop record prior to 95 that didnt sample.There's not alot outside of the dude on my avatar.
Unless your gonna sell alot of records I wouldn't worry about it. There's alot of underground lables making lots of money not clearing samples that Mad Lib uses..oops...did i spill some beans?.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying sampling is immoral or disrespectful, I'm saying not giving props to the guys you sampled is simply not right. Whether you are paying sample clearance fees or not is by-the-by, I feel it's about giving credit for the stuff you sampled, rather than being sneaky and trying to hide it, or not caring because you feel you are so small time no one will ever know. I've always thought that attitude was pretty lame, although in this day and age of cracks, warez and pirating, it's not suprising to find people with that kind of attitude.

What's wrong with giving credit where credit's due?

well I do here your point excpet for the fact that the majority of these artists do not see that money, rather it is the business who inatially screwed the artist to begin with is usaully the reeps the benifits.

I know this for a fact, it sucks to be sued and even worse when you lose and have to pay money to the other party. Happened to me, although it wasn't music related.

Had I gotten proper legal advice I would not have lost anything, but I was young and didn't want to hire an attorney. So I paid the cost.

Otayo20 wrote:well I do here your point excpet for the fact that the majority of these artists do not see that money, rather it is the business who inatially screwed the artist to begin with is usaully the reeps the benifits.

My point isn't about who gets the money - it's about giving credit to the people who provided the source sound/loops/hooks for your beats. For example, listing in your album notes all the sources that you got your samples from, track by track. That's giving the people respect. You'd expect the exact same thing back if someone used a sample from your track. It's not about money, it's about getting credit for the contribution your work made to a new work. It's about knowing that your music is inspiring the next generation of artists, rather than finding out some random punk has been taking your stuff and passing it off as his own.

I thought this was a discussion about "clearing samples". Not paying homage to your sampled source. I misunderstood. Thats too different discusions. But i would hardly put karma in the equation. Hip Hop music was based on people sampling music and not listing there sources. Listing your samples came from clearing them not from morals. The digging culture is letting people find your samples not giving them excactly where it came from.I m not talkin about looping. I feel it's a matter of culturual differences rather than morals and respect. It's hip hop culture and usaully people from the outside feel a lot of it is disrespectful if they are outsiders.