Live act with mpc 4000

Hello,

Is someone can help me.

I want to make live with my mpc 4000, but i don't know how to manage this.

I'm a beginner with the mpc 4000. If i have understand the Multi, you can have 32 programs per Multi to use with sequences.

If i want different programs for my next sequence, i have to change the current Multi to the one with the programs i want.

Ther is no way to record in the sequence wich multi to use ? or to be able to change it together with the next sequence function ?

actually you can have up to 128 programs within each multi

That is a valid question, I would also like to be able to do this... Although you can have up to 128 programs within a multi you are confined to the same fx routing for all the programs within that multi. This is IMO the weakest feature of the mpc 4000, but with all the other features, I am not complaining.

hi guys,

what's puzzeling me then, is why do you have 128 empty songs for you to load your sequences in?

I've been trying to figure this out.....

I usualy start bymostly making a 4 or 8 bar sequence, then I make all the tracks that make up my song.
after that I mute sertain tracks, copy paste to sequence2, unmute other tracks in that sequene, copy paste, unmute etc to create the structure of my song.
once thats done I add fill-ins and do some additional programming to all the sequences that could benefit by it since this makes the sequences flow over in eachother rather than just switch over which sounds less appealing.

after that I perfect the mix,do the panning and add effects.
.....switch to song mode and I'm ready to record to wavelab!

this seems to me the logic way of working but correct me if I'm wrong.
the manual doesn't really guide you on that subject which really disappoints me since that's what people buy the machine for, making music ,right?

as for live acts, I think we're supposed to load the sequences from the 1st song into empty song001 and name it's multi ; multi 1.
load the next song into empty song002 and name it's multi ; multi 2 and so on to create the chain of songs for the live act.
so normally the song and it's multi should switch over whenever it reaches the end.....but I can't even load 2 different songs in an empty songxxx!

for example, when I want to load into empty song002 it overwrites song001.

maybe I'm supposed to convert each song to a sequence first, but then like I said, why do I have the 128 empty songs for to load my sequences in?

anyway if by now anywone here can awnser my question I'd much apprecite it!

Well the way I've been using it is to start off with programming my music to 2 or 4 bar loops. I often use external synths, drum machines etc. when I have something I am happy with, I start thinking about what I want to tweak live (remember you only have two hands, just in case you forgot) and there's only a certain amount of live tweaks you can do at one time. I mostly play around with cut - off, mutes and volume (bringing up a cerain part like on a mixer) and using the sends to add some delays to a one hit or simple things like that

Once I like what I have, I either record the one shots or loops into an audio program like pro tools and do some mixing inside the box. Then I bounce the finished, mixed, effected loops, one hits etc to single tracks in pro tools and go about creating new programs using ak sys. I know it's a bummer but at least I don't flood the mpc with unused programs or samples. I only have exacltly what I need etc. I then go back to the mpc, Using sounds and go about assigning the notes to the sampes in the different programs but this time, I make a 16 bar loop with plenty of changes, fills and rolls to add some spice. I will add the filters etc and recently have been using my UC-33 controller as the controller to the live. All my parts are set to Internal A and B and I have the controller hooked to midi In I. Because I don't like to switch between pad banks, I use the 16 pads in bank A to mute an unmute and I use the knobs on the UC to contol de volume of Bank B this way, I am not always flicking between the screens. As I said you can record certain mutes and fills and let them play from the sequencer and focus on bringing a pad in gently, opening the filter of a percussion loop or bass line. K I S S, keep it stupid and simple. The more manual things you have to do, the more you are likely to suddenly have something spastic come out the speakers.

I use the mixer in the multi to get the general levels, add a touch of reverb and Delay, a comp here and there, pan the sounds like I would in a regular mixer.

There is a handy thing called a Multi change message. There is also a handy thing called the paper and pen. Once I know pretty much the order of the songs I want to use in the live set, I write it down and I take each multi and give it a multi number, the pen helps me remember which multi number I used already. I usually order the multi numbers in the order of the set. I then assign an internal part to the multi and choose program change to flip the multi. I then save all the multi's into my specific live set file in the HD and also burn the whole thing to cdr which I always have at hand. I also save all the sequences that I loaded loading them individually and renaming them with the order they will be played. seq 1 renamed 1- Song Name - Seq (1) or (2) etc. These are all saved into the exact same file as the multi's and programs used in the live).

Got to go to lunch but if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

hey!
didn't expect a reply so soon since it's a 3 year old thread!

yeah I definately have some questions....

I've been focussing purely on production work up 'till now so I didn't take into consideration sertain aspects that may or may not be causing me these difficulties.

for example I gave the sequences, multi's and all-seq-songs belonging to a specific song/file the same name so that I don't overwrite anything if I'd accidentally save files from a sertain song in the wrong folder which has happened in the past....

I'm not sure if this causes the problems...
just to make sure I've tried renaming the "multi's" and "all-seq-songs" for each song to the number in which I want the songs to follow eachother up but I didn't rename the sequences from my second song to follow up the last sequence from the first song by number.
meaning... I have song001(all-seq-song1) with multi1(and multi number1), which ends with "sequence_052" .
I want it followed up by song002(all-seq-song2), with multi2(and multi number2), which starts with the sequence I named "Xenomorph1" and ends with "Xenomorph47"

since each song has it's own settings I figured this wouldn't matter...
you tell me!

you've also mentioned "multi change" function, I guess I did that the right way by setting multi1(with multi number1),multi2(with multi number2)..
correct?

I hope I explained it well....

so what am I doing wrong?

this is what the song sounds like btw;

http://www.twistedhardware.com/music/S_ ... omorph.mp3

Hi again,

sorry I don't have too much time to answer cause I am at work...

If you want to do your live based around songs, then those songs source their arrangement from the multiple sequences that put together, make a full fledged song. If you want you can get a basic song together, leaving room for tweaks, and try the function in the Mpc called, "Convert song to sequence"... this means that all your differenct sequences that are aranged in song mode, become a single sequence... This then means you can use the Mutes screen which I seem to remember was not accessible from song mode. Then bobs your uncle, you can have 128 songs / sequences...

Hope this is a step in the right direction.

To change the multi, you need to send a program change message on the internal midi channel that you have chosen that multi to switch on.

Say you chose int B, you would go to track 120, go to program change in the main window, hit the orange window button and choose the corresponding multi number. That way as soon as you pass to the next sequence, the multi flips at the same time, although I can't seem to get rid of the glitches caused by the effects changing.

thanks dude!

I'm going to try it later on.

I'll let you know if it worked.

I'll better not keep you from work.
l8er!

Bear in mind you can use any kind of workflow you want, there's no rules!

but as a rule of thumb:

[Song] mode doesn't have as good timing as [Main] mode.
It is maybe best used in the studio as a scratch-pad for linking sequences together in the right order to form a song. Once everything's programmed into play, then you hit "Convert Song to Sequence", and you get one big sequence which you can play on stage to from start to finish.

Alternatively, if you like to take a more improvised approach on stage (ie rather than playing set songs from start to finish, with the same number of verses and choruses every time, you like to bring things in and out on the fly, swapping different loops all around....) then have all your loops as sequences, and use the NEXT SEQUENCE mode and TRACK MUTE features to switch from loop to loop using the pads.

You can either save single sequences (as .mid files)
or you can save ALL songs and sequences (.all file)
You can't save individual songs, and if you load a .all file, it wipes all the other sequences and songs from memory.

depending on the size of the next sequence I might try samplling seq2 from the main outs with effex on and set it to a pad. THat way maybe you can freek events live on the 1st sequence and just let the 2nd part play out or vice versa and maybe even use smaller sections with effects allready recorded in the audio and switch between what you need to perform live

squareSOUL wrote:depending on the size of the next sequence I might try samplling seq2 from the main outs with effex on and set it to a pad. THat way maybe you can freek events live on the 1st sequence and just let the 2nd part play out or vice versa and maybe even use smaller sections with effects allready recorded in the audio and switch between what you need to perform live

That sounds good... Alternatively you could sample groups of tracks as loops and mute and un mute at ease, a bit like having mute groups. ie one mute controlling several mutes... just leaving say the kick, snare and hats on seperate tracks... I don-t know, just filling in with some ideas... live playing is so vast a subject..

The simplest way could be to- record you whole song as a sample from the main out in the sample section- label it the song name. then create a new file and folder with each of your songs-as samples assigned to a button in a program. then just play your whole song- as a sample using the 'one shot', this way you can decide what order you want to do your set and see the song titles arranged in the program assign....just a thought.

grassroots wrote:The simplest way could be to- record you whole song as a sample from the main out in the sample section- label it the song name. then create a new file and folder with each of your songs-as samples assigned to a button in a program. then just play your whole song- as a sample using the 'one shot', this way you can decide what order you want to do your set and see the song titles arranged in the program assign....just a thought.

Yess but that would not really be live... might just as well record the whole thing to CD and hit play then stand behind your mpc and pretend to tweak live. Sure you can record some loops etc with different mute combos and play those back live off different pads... THat would be a little more interesting... What you have to do is not to make it toooo complicated. You only have two hands and the option to use a foot pedal or something. This means you have to be selective over what you decide to tweek live and what you let the mpc do for you...

Just my 2 cents

yeah just hit play, put one hand in the air and use you other to "playback" the snaredrum. be sure you mute that pad!

I've been using the 2kxl live for years. My style is similar to a beatmatching DJ that keeps the set going continuously through most if not all of the set.

---Sequencing---
When the 4k came out I was interested to see if they improved any of the sequencer functionality for live use. Unfortunately outside of the sample engine upgrade (which of course is awesome), not too much. What I found that was really missing was a way to mix in a second sequence on the fly. There is 2nd sequence, but not live friendly. This makes transitions with next sequence a bit harsh. If you preprogram your entire set or stop between each song, this doesn't matter, but if you want to be able to jump around smoothly there are a few options:

-Have various loops mapped out all over the same sequence and use track mutes. Usually there is still some point where you are going to have to jump to another sequence though.

-Use other loop based midi gear to keep things smooth. For example, if you have another drum machine, you can mix into that, and then back to the MPC (or use them together). Seemless transitions there and you can jump to any sequence.

-Preprogramed transitions. Take loops from 2 sequences and copy and paste them together into a blended sequence. This allows you, for example, to take out the bass drum of one track and bring in the kick from the next track... and so on.

I use combinations of all of the above since each have their pros and cons.

---Programs/Multis----
The other MPCs don't have multi's, just programs (so technically its like one multi... APS file). With the XL you can use 4 programs at once which makes it possible to blend 2 tracks with different kits (or more). The 4k lifts this to a level where you wont run out (you'll probably run out of RAM before you use 128 full programs). On the XL you have to use program changes to get to other programs, but on the 4k you could reference up to 32 without doing this. It seems the main benefit of multiple multis is the Q-link and FX routing (since FX aren't at the program level on the 4k). Bad thing is you can't have 2 multis loaded at once, so multis aren't friendly for blending 2 sequences together. You should be able to set up a single multi for live use if the FX thing doesn't bother you. Basically you would want to route your FX and q-link similarly for all of your kits so that its not a problem. Maybe leave an extra one or two open that you can assign on the fly as needed.

I actually have a question about the 4k. Would you trust it in a live situation? I've had the XL crash on me various times over the years, however it only seems to happen when I am editing things and has never happened while in play mode. Anybody see their 4k crash while playing?