New JJ Os For The 2500 Is Here. Check It Out.

Sovereign wrote:Wrong.
It take three elements to have sample accurate sync and that's what MOTU designed the DTP to provide.
They eventually just added the majority of the features of the DTP to the newer MTP and discontinued the DTP.

do you actually mean that while your MPC would be synced to a DAW via MTC, it would be sample accurate? even when you'd record into an audiofile in the DAW it can't be...well anyway, i doubt it, MIDI is too flaky.

The only place where a DAW can control the sample accuracy is inside itself, softsynths and audio tracks. right?

the words Sample Accurate can appear in the magazine ads though.

Originally posted by MasterChief:
When just recording without any sync and manually lining my audio up in my Logic Pro it works but it is very time consuming to always line them up.

I am curious to know what you are doing to make this a drawn out process. Your MPC tracks shouldn't change/shift positions during recording into Logic. Most DAWs have features that you can link recorded audio on multiple tracks and move them to any position. All tracks will retain their relative positions. Earlier, you stated that your MPC audio recorded early. Its should be very easy to nudge the group of tracks to wherever you want them to start playing.

Red Ketchup wrote:
if MPC is slave to MIDICLOCK, your groove will not be right. you should slave your MPC with MTC, this will provide the best results.

Sen-sei, why would the MPC grove not be right if it is slaved to

Midi Clock?

Red Ketchup wrote:
man, do you think that by 2015 you will have understood how scoring music to picture works?

Only if you teach me.

I am still trying to understand how a vet like yourself would have problems in this area. So which Multi-media system are you using? Pro Tools, Nuendo, Logic, Digital Performer, or one of those other high-end systems??

Red Ketchup wrote:
So far, with the latest JJ version, i can synt to MTC without a glitch

MasterChief, did you state earlier that the JJ OS/MTC recorded audio early for you? If so, Red Ketchup should be able to point you in the right direction because his MPC works fine.

jahrome wrote:

Red Ketchup wrote:
if MPC is slave to MIDICLOCK, your groove will not be right. you should slave your MPC with MTC, this will provide the best results.

jahrome wrote:Sen-sei, why would the MPC grove not be right if it is slaved to

MTC?

can't read anymore?? i clearly said MIDICLOCK. make a test with some quantized swing you'll hear the difference. it's quite obvious the difference in swing.

jahrome wrote:I am still understanding why you would have problems in this area. So which Multi-media system are you using? Pro Tools, Nuendo, Logic, Digital Performer, or one of those other high-end systems??

you don't understand why I need MTC, that's the problem. such a basic concept though.

Red Ketchup wrote:

Sovereign wrote:Wrong.
It take three elements to have sample accurate sync and that's what MOTU designed the DTP to provide.
They eventually just added the majority of the features of the DTP to the newer MTP and discontinued the DTP.

do you actually mean that while your MPC would be synced to a DAW via MTC, it would be sample accurate? i doubt it, MIDI is too flaky.

but the words Sample Accurate can appear in the magazine ads.

Do you really work in the video or film world?

To have sample accurate sync requires 3 components:
1) address (SMPTE time code location and audio sample number)
2) time base (word clock)
3) machine control (transport and cueing)
The DTP provided all three and was sample accurate.
A DTP locked to Blackburst was pretty hard to beat.
People keep talking about MTC not being accurate and MIDI being flakey, who in the h*ll would try to lock that way if they needed accuracy?

Right tools for the job is what pays the bills and get the job done, not trying to get something to do what it is incapable of.

Sovereign wrote:Do you really work in the video or film world?

well, I make music, sometimes for movies, sometimes other things. i am not a technician, but i have always found MIDI to be a bit flakey compared to the accuracy of a sofsynth, but syncing an MPC (for example) via MTC is good enough for what I do. i simply prefer the feel of hardware sequencers such as an MPC for basic grooves. and i am not strictly talking hiphop.

jahrome wrote:

Sen-sei, why would the MPC grove not be right if it is slaved to

Midi Clock?

Jahrome there is something fishy about the MIDI CLOCK on the 2500.
If you program something with any true groove or movement and lock it to a DAW with MIDI CLOCK (MPC slave) it will sound almost like a person stumbling around.
As if the DAW is running at 99.5 BPM and the MPC is running at 98.9 BPM.
It's there.
The exact same setup with MTC doesn't do it.

Sovereign wrote:Jahrome there is something fishy about the MIDI CLOCK on the 2500.

yeah, and i never really noticed that before with other machines, but it is so obvious with the MPC, maybe it's because it grooves so well that you immediateley sense when it **** up due to MIDICLOCK.

Red Ketchup wrote:

Sovereign wrote:Do you really work in the video or film world?

well, I make music, sometimes for movies, sometimes other things. i am not a technician, but i have always found MIDI to be a bit flakey compared to the accuracy of a sofsynth, but syncing an MPC (for example) via MTC is good enough for what I do. i simply prefer the feel of hardware sequencers such as an MPC for basic grooves. and i am not strictly talking hiphop.

As I stated if you have the 3 elements your lock will be sample accurate.
It makes going back to a project easy to do since the data is on an accurate timeline.
MTC with some lead in can be ok for short runs, but the difference comes in when you need events to fall accurately on a specific time.

Jahrome there is something fishy about the MIDI CLOCK on the 2500.
If you program something with any true groove or movement and lock it to a DAW with MIDI CLOCK (MPC slave) it will sound almost like a person stumbling around.
As if the DAW is running at 99.5 BPM and the MPC is running at 98.9 BPM.
It's there.
The exact same setup with MTC doesn't do it.

Is your DAW and MPC running at different TEMPOs? They should be at the same TEMPO and also, I would turn on MMC. (*Edit-)

Now I have experienced some strange results when playing my DAWs transport..stopping..playing...stopping repeatedly to try to throw off the MPC....but when I am not doing that, I haven't experienced any problems with my MPC losing its groove.

But to clear things up, I record the MPC as audio into my DAW. The quantize functions of my DAW do not come into play when recording audio. Are you guys recording the MPC as MIDI into your DAW?

Red Ketchup wrote:
can't read anymore?? i clearly said MIDICLOCK. make a test with some quantized swing you'll hear the difference. it's quite obvious the difference in swing.

You were typing so fast/slow that you missed my edited post.

So Logic's quantized swing affects audio recording? Or are you saying that Logics Midi Clock, is throwing the MPC off? Or somsething else?

jahrome wrote:You were typing so fast/slow that you missed my edited post.

what do you mean by fast/slow? haha, jarhome, c'mon man.

jahrome wrote:So Logic's quantized swing affects audio recording? Or are you saying that Logics Midi Clock, is throwing the MPC off? Or somsething else?

here it is again:
sequence recorded to and playing back from an MPC that is synced to a DAW via MIDICLOCK = the timing/groove of the MPC ain't right. But if the sync method used is MTC, it's right. Get it? I know my english is not perfect, but i think this is clear, non?

It's nothing funny about the setup, tempos or anything of the sort.
I can use the XL, 3k, 60 or 4k with the same setting in the sam e setup with no problems.
It's only the 2500 that does it.
Don't know about the 1k or 500 they are below the bar of choice.

There are some time based issues in the 2500 without a doubt.
It probably plays into why for the most part the detect tempo will be wrong regardless the size of the sample.
The Akai OS has gotten to the point where it doesn't even do the x2 onthe tempo it just throws a number out there that it likes.

Red Ketchup wrote:
here it is again:
sequence recorded to and playing back from an MPC that is synced to a DAW via MIDICLOCK = the timing/groove of the MPC ain't right. But if the sync method used is MTC, it's right. Get it? I know my english is not perfect, but i think this is clear, non?

I actually need more detail but......

Are you saying that your MPC is slave to <insert sequencer here> via Midi CLock. You are recording audio into your sequencer. Now, upon playback, the sequencer's audio and the MPCs audio is not in sync?

After you record your MPC as audio into your sequencer..disable sync...and playback just the recorded audio. Does the audio tracks sound off?

jahrome wrote:Are you saying that your MPC is slave to <insert sequencer here> via Midi CLock. You are recording audio into your sequencer. Now, upon playback, the sequencer's audio and the MPCs audio is not in sync?

After you record your MPC as audio into your sequencer..disable sync...and playback just the recorded audio. Does the audio tracks sound off?

you still don't understand! let's just say i would never use MIDICLOCK to slave my2500 to anything if groove is important.

Sovereign wrote:
It's nothing funny about the setup, tempos or anything of the sort.
I can use the XL, 3k, 60 or 4k with the same setting in the sam e setup with no problems.
It's only the 2500 that does it.
Don't know about the 1k or 500 they are below the bar of choice.

There are some time based issues in the 2500 without a doubt.
It probably plays into why for the most part the detect tempo will be wrong regardless the size of the sample.
The Akai OS has gotten to the point where it doesn't even do the x2 onthe tempo it just throws a number out there that it likes.

Unfortunately, the people that programmed the older MPCs are no longer employed to work on the newer models.

But I am trying to produce a deviation from my MPCs swing when sync'd.

jahrome wrote:But I am trying to produce a deviation from my MPCs swing when sync'd.

simply make a beat on the MPC with a lot of swing, then, when done, sync to a DAW with MIDICLOCK and record as audio. then, change sync settings to MTC and record as audio.

Listen to the audiofiles. The swing is not the same.