New JJ Os For The 2500 Is Here. Check It Out.

you still don't understand! let's just say i would never use MIDICLOCK to slave my2500 to anything if groove is important.

Hell..I give up.

If you actually gave some detail, I would probably understand what you are trying to say...

here it is again:
sequence recorded to and playing back from an MPC that is synced to a DAW via MIDICLOCK = the timing/groove of the MPC ain't right. But if the sync method used is MTC, it's right. Get it? I know my english is not perfect, but i think this is clear, non?

Recording audio or MIDI?
What sequencer?
Which is the Midi Clock Master/slave?
MMC on?
Tempo?
MPCs Grove ain't right? Soon as the MPC is sync'd its groove is thrown off? The MPC tracks you recorded as audio..is the groove off there?


This is one reason why things get delayed in being fixed. Can't anyone write a step by step guide to producing a problem? (without leaving out details)

Red Ketchup wrote:
simply make a beat on the MPC with a lot of swing, then, when done, sync to a DAW with MIDICLOCK and record as audio. then, change sync settings to MTC and record as audio.

Listen to the audiofiles. The swing is not the same.

How come you couldn't write that the first time?

Hell..maybe its my English that's bad

I understand now....

jahrome wrote:Hell..maybe its my English that's bad

I understand now....

try to write a dozen pages in french trying to explain technical stuff! you english speakers have it a bit easy on the net. to be fair it should ve been esperanto....

I hope you didn't think I forgot Note: I only used OS 1.22


Well fellas...MTC and Midi Clock had no impact on the way my audio was recorded. I recorded tracks using both. Both tracks sound the same and it didn't mess with my swing settings.

However, if you playback the tracks together, the Midi Clock recorded track plays millisecond(s) after the MTC sync'd track. This was to be expected because they are different protocals. This delays was consistent throughout the song.

One note for people using Midi Clock....its tempo based. So if the MPC is set to slave, it will play at the tempo set by your software sequencer




Now I believe I have found the culprit for why MPC audio may record early or later than expected. AUDIO BUFFER SETTINGS

When I set my buffer settings really low, audio is recorded early. Setting them higher, it records a little later. How can something this simple be missed? Again this was strickly audio. I will try recording MIDI next.

I really look forward to hearing from you guys. Because for months, I have been hearing people talk about MTC recording early..and what not. I can't say for sure what I have found is positive proof...but simply changing my buffer settings impacted where audio would start recording on a track.

Also, note that I have a pretty decent sound card/midi interface: RME HDSP 9652 PCI card....24 channels of ADAT digital I/O, SPDIF I/O, and MIDI OUT X2, MIDI IN X2.

Holla!

jahrome wrote:I hope you didn't think I forgot Note: I only used OS 1.22


Well fellas...MTC and Midi Clock had no impact on the way my audio was recorded. I recorded tracks using both. Both tracks sound the same and it didn't mess with my swing settings. sync'd track. This was to be expected because they are different protocals. This delays was consistent throughout the song.

have you considered that you *can't* hear the difference? concentrate, it's subtle. i did the test with Logic and Live. MIO 2882 + AMT8 on a G5 tower, latest Mac OS.

Naw...I did listen...but I didn't base my findings from my ears. Too subjective.

Set my DAW to the finest resolution to SEE where the drums hit on a track. Oh...I guess that is subjective too.

Well, if I find a english keyboard laying around, I can take some screen shots.

So..I completed another test. I set the MPC to MTC slave (OS1.22). I recorded the MPC 2500 Demo Song Ill Hip-hop into my DAW. I set up 10 tracks and tested them in pairs. I would set the AUDIO Buffer at 1.5ms and record this while my DAW Tempo setting is 96. Tnen I would do the same thing with my DAW Tempo set at 120. Then set the AUDIO Buffer to 3ms...and so forth..

RESULTS: Both the Audio Buffer settings and the Tempo that your DAW is set to will impact where audio shows up in the DAW sequencer. Depending on your settings, they may be early or later on your DAWs sequencer GRID.

For anyone have trouble editing...your DAW should allow you to select multiple tracks and use the SCISSORS tool (or something equal to it) to slice your audio at a certain point. I slice all the tracks at once at bar 5.01.5. I deleted everything before bar 5.01.05. Selected ALL tracks again (or something equal in your DAW) and I dragged the tracks and moved them so they start on the first beat of bar one (simple right).

So before this edit, the tracks didn't match up with the grip in my DAW. Now all the tracks start at bar 1.01.00...perfectly aligned with the grid.

Now I am pretty sure most of you know this...but there may be a few that haven't read/got that far in their DAW/DAW pdf manuals they downloaded from [EDIT]

Just proves that you don't program complicated beats to tick that's all.
The difference only shows in things that have some level of true drum positioning.
It has nothing to do with the SWING settings on the MPC, it has to do with programming something that has a real groove with displaced notes.
Just turn the quantize off and do some real drumming, add in some real tick based editing to produce some real distinct movement in the drums, throw in some combined T/S and you should hear and/or see the difference in the groove.
It can't effect the groove if the groove isn't there.

Sovereign wrote:
Just proves that you don't program complicated beats to tick that's all.
The difference only shows in things that have some level of true drum positioning.
It has nothing to do with the SWING settings on the MPC, it has to do with programming something that has a real groove with displaced notes.
Just turn the quantize off and do some real drumming, add in some real tick based editing to produce some real distinct movement in the drums, throw in some combined T/S and you should hear and/or see the difference in the groove.
It can't effect the groove if the groove isn't there.

You are really stretching. The audio was recorded and played back perfectly. I did a test that any of you reading this can try. We all have the demo song. I recorded the demo song as is...and I adjusted the swing setting. If that isn't enough for you.....email me a MIDI file of one of your complicated drum tracks.

And as far as turning off QUANTIZE...if I wanted the real distinct movement in the drums, throw in some combined T/S ......I would just record live drums...or record them straight into my DAW which has a more powerful sequencer than any hardware drum machine on the market. With the exception of 1 MPC, the sequencer resolution is 96 ppqs

Anyway...let me know if you want to email me a MIDI file to test.

Red Ketchup wrote:
have you considered that you *can't* hear the difference? concentrate, it's subtle. i did the test with Logic and Live. MIO 2882 + AMT8 on a G5 tower, latest Mac OS.

I did the test with Nuendo 3, custom built PC w/ dual 23 inch monitors...so what?

Maybe its your gear and the Mac OS that is given you problems???

As I stated before, no audio issues...and no issues looking at the track graphically....

jahrome wrote:

Red Ketchup wrote:
have you considered that you *can't* hear the difference? concentrate, it's subtle. i did the test with Logic and Live. MIO 2882 + AMT8 on a G5 tower, latest Mac OS.

I did the test with Nuendo 3, custom built PC w/ dual 23 inch monitors...so what?

Maybe its your gear and the Mac OS that is given you problems???

As I stated before, no audio issues...and no issues looking at the track graphically....

J I've tried to use MTC and Midi Clock to no avail. I have the MPC slaved and Pro Tools are the Master. When I hit record play on PT I want the MPC beat to start playing so PT can record it in sync. What settings do you have on your MPC (slave) and other hardware (master)

MPC:
Midi Clock Slave
MMC Receive ON


Pro Tools:
Midi Clock Master
MMC send:ON




MPC
MTC Slave
MMC send ON
MMC receive ON

Pro Tools
MTC Master
MMC Send ON

For MTC to work, you have to press play on the MPC which will put it in standbye waiting for the MTC signal. Press play in Pro Tools and the MPC should start. Press stop in Pro Tools and the MPC will keep playing (nothing I can do about this).....


You can also try the JJ OS.....

jahrome wrote:
You are really stretching. The audio was recorded and played back perfectly. I did a test that any of you reading this can try. We all have the demo song. I recorded the demo song as is...and I adjusted the swing setting. If that isn't enough for you.....email me a MIDI file of one of your complicated drum tracks.

And as far as turning off QUANTIZE...if I wanted the real distinct movement in the drums, throw in some combined T/S ......I would just record live drums...or record them straight into my DAW which has a more powerful sequencer than any hardware drum machine on the market. With the exception of 1 MPC, the sequencer resolution is 96 ppqs

Anyway...let me know if you want to email me a MIDI file to test.

No you are just being contrary.
It must be that you don't really use the MPC on that deep a level when it comes to drum programming.

Can you play live drums?
If you can then it should already make more sense to you about creating a groove.
Also you would play the MPC deeply enough to see.
More powerful doesn't make a sequencer better if just gives it more points for error to occur or more control of nonmusical aspects.
It's not the PPQ that makes the difference it's how you apply your understanding of musical notation that makes the notes happen.
People always refer to the swing on the MPC like it's what all MPC users use to get their grooves, when it's not.
The grooves of the MPC are based on turning off the quantize and making use of all those wonder tick points the 906 offers you for note placement.
The swing function is just a mathematical shift based on the T/S, no where as complicated.
If it not a problem to you then that's cool, but it just means that you use your MPC differently.
So I would take it that you don't use STEP EDIT with the Quantize off?

Sovereign wrote:
No you are just being contrary.
It must be that you don't really use the MPC on that deep a level when it comes to drum programming.

Can you play live drums?
If you can then it should already make more sense to you about creating a groove.
Also you would play the MPC deeply enough to see.
More powerful doesn't make a sequencer better if just gives it more points for error to occur or more control of nonmusical aspects.
It's not the PPQ that makes the difference it's how you apply your understanding of musical notation that makes the notes happen.
People always refer to the swing on the MPC like it's what all MPC users use to get their grooves, when it's not.
The grooves of the MPC are based on turning off the quantize and making use of all those wonder tick points the 906 offers you for note placement.
The swing function is just a mathematical shift based on the T/S, no where as complicated.
If it not a problem to you then that's cool, but it just means that you use your MPC differently.
So I would take it that you don't use STEP EDIT with the Quantize off?

Can I play live drums? Can you dance?

Man..you don't know what you are talking about. The MPCs QUANTIZE/SWING/NOTE SHIFT functions are reasons why it is so popular for so long. This is why most software makers have been adding their versions of the MPC swing to software DAWs....the reason why keyboard workstation makers have added similar functions.....so while you don't like or care to use..that's your problem.

Say what you want...but I am the one that doesn't have issues with my MPC So, you can email me a MIDI file with one of your complex drum sequences for me to test out.


And PPQ does matter to many more people than there are MPC owners. Can you name one software sequencer company that has a product that only has 96 ppqs? Hell naw. There are $50 programs that have 960 ppqs


And no...I don't need to EDIT my drums.....Hit play/record..and beat on the pads...don't like it? Then repeat the same procedure until you get it right. With practice....you can do the same.


PM if you want to know where to send the MIDI file to. You have an MPC and a computer so it will take you a minute to get the file to me Why? Because I told you I performed my test..but you question by ability to play drums..so I will do it with your drum sequence.

Got up this morning hoping to see a PM requesting my email address so I could be sent a complex MIDI drum track that was created with the QUANTIZE off. To my suprise..nothing