Unofficial modifications or beta OS

We can all think of reason why this wouldn't be possible, but i still think it's a great idea.
If some guys from Scandinavia can write a new OS for my yamaha tx16w, surely someone can do it for the mpc. The tx16w never sold well in the first place, and the mpc2000 has a lot of users out there. Of course you'll have to mad to even start thinking about writing a new OS.

oh and Descartes...."the os of the mpc is, after all, copywritten"
Sure, but if you would write a completly new OS, that won't be an issue. It's my mpc, and i can use any damn OS i like.

-{n8}- wrote:[tell me what brings you to such a quick conclusion?
1-0ne

I said it wouldn't happen, I didn't say it couldn't happen. There's so MANY conflicts on interest that I just don't think it will happen. It CAN be done but will it? Anything under the sun can be done.

ieism wrote:We can all think of reason why this wouldn't be possible, but i still think it's a great idea.
If some guys from Scandinavia can write a new OS for my yamaha tx16w, surely someone can do it for the mpc. The tx16w never sold well in the first place, and the mpc2000 has a lot of users out there. Of course you'll have to mad to even start thinking about writing a new OS.

oh and Descartes...."the os of the mpc is, after all, copywritten"
Sure, but if you would write a completly new OS, that won't be an issue. It's my mpc, and i can use any damn OS i like.

hey man, i'm all for it too... but check your manual:

akai mpc2000 manual page iii wrote:The AKAI MPC2000 is a computer-based device, and as such contains and uses software in DISKs and ROMs. This software, and all related documentation, including this Operator's Manual, contain proprietary information which is protected by copywrite laws. All rights are reserved. No part of the software or its documentation may be copied, transferredor modified. You may not modify, adapt, translate, lease, distribute, resell for profit or create derivative works based on the software and its related documentation or any part there of without prior written consent from AKAI Electric Co. Ltd, Tokyo, Japan.

I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds like it applies to what we are discussing.
so we would be breaking the law if we did this without akai's permission.
That doesnt bother me (a good lawyer might be able to argue that this is fair use or adds value to akai's property, especially if the new os was distributed for free) but it is something to keep in mind...

i hear you guys. it's definitely not legal without akai's consent.

it's going to have to be third party or a partnership between the third party and akai to make it happen. i have some ideas for hardware accessories so i'll see if i can take that anywhere to make some money to fund the project. i'm still going to do the petition and survey within the next week (anyone with experience with forms please give me a shout cause i'm having problems) to see how much of an interest there is (maybe akai will catch the hint).

you're right though, it's going to be a third party that makes it happen.

1-0ne

I think to be on the safe side we need to consult a lawyer and contact Akai and aproach them with the ideas before even attempting to raise the funding. Get the petition and survey going, we'll need documentation to back up the project and a HUGE following.

I was just telling N8 earlier about how to get around the limited flash space issue and pirating of the OS. This would require a rewrite of the OS but, it would work if we had the support and backing.
1) rewrite the OS and have it installable only to an 8MB (or more) flash card that installs to the already available slot on the mainboard.
2) When booted, the OS only loads the code needed to start the machine; All the higher functions are stored on the flash until it's called. If just the basic functions are loaded and things like loop & sample editing, disk formating are left on the flash upgrade untill it's needed. This should also decrease the amount of time it takes to boot up.
3) require an activation of the flash which happens the first time the MPC isbooted with the new 8mb (or whatever) flash. Any subsequent upgrades of the OS would require a new activation code which will prevent pirating.

Combining the OS update with a hardware upgrade would raise the cost to the consumer but protect the work product.

I'm really starting to think that this could be squashed wthout some kind of support from Akai but, I am hopefull that we can get through.

I think N8 has the drive to really persue this and I'd like to give him the support and stay possitive in hopes that this works out. All it takes is to approach the right person with the ideas and it'll be all she wrote. There will be no stopping it.

I also think by us comming together and forming a think tank we shouldn't limit our thinking just to the Non XL model but, think of how it may apply to the XL model as well since their designs are so similar.

I've got a bit of good news (not great, but it's a start). I just spoke to a gentleman in the Akai Engineering dept. and he's willing to hear some of our ideas regarding the MPC. At first it started out with "we feel there's nothing else that can be done with the machine" but he was willing to hear me out with one of our ideas. Afterwards, I told him that I understand their position on the MPC and thanked him for his time but, he then asked me to e-mail him back with a few of our ideas so he can share them with some of the other engineers and see if there is anything there they can work with. I don't want to overwhelm him with anything too far fetched that it would mean stretching the MPC into the outer limits; I need some feed back from you guys on what we would like to see added and how it would work. Please, think of things that don't require modifying the casing to implement. We should focus on simple tasks that can make use of the existing physical ports and accessories. If we keep it simple and be patient, we may be able to do more at a latter time.

I'm looking for the top 5 upgrade requests; my vote of course is for FAT32 and long filename support.

Also, if you have any ideas on how to get around the limitations of the EEPROM, let me know. This is important since it is the main reason why they went to the XL. From the discussion I had, the OS is compressed in order to fit. This means that there must be some sort of medium to hold the remainder of the code that can't fit till it is called and like I said before, have the MPC load only the bare essentials.

Hit me..

Okay, this is kind of complex, but I'll try to be as clear as possible. The first update I would like is automatic loop chopping across sixteen pads.

Now, I know that this already implimented in the 2000xl, but I have a better idea, and one that can be done as a very minor OS tweak:

Now, if you go into the velocity modulation page (Program(6) + Shift, PARAMS (F2), select the envelope field, press open window) one of the options is "Velo>Start." This allows the velocity to control the start time of the sample.

So, say you have a one bar drum loop... if you set it like this and tap lightly, just the tail end of the sample will play. The harder you tap it, the erlier the sample will play. This is a neat effect, but one I've never found too much use for. But get this: if you set the sound for sixteen levels (using the 16 levels key) what happens is the first 5 or so pads dont play anything and then the sixth pad just plays the tail end the seventh a little more, etc. untill the 16th pad plays the whole sample.

What I would like to see is the function "tweaked" so that it controls the start and the end time of the sample, effectivly cutting the sample up into 16 slices without actually cutting it.

As anyone who has spent a time cutting samples by hand knows, most drum beats, even live ones, fall into a more or less "sixteen step" set up. So a function that could do this would allow you to recreate a drum loop in real time.

As an added bonus: the mpc can only hold a limited number of samples (as we all know). In the studio this isnt such a problem, but live it is (as no one wants to be loading sounds on stage). If this tweak was done to the os, it would mean that you could just load the individual drum loops and wouldnt have to load the individual slices of the drum loops.

I think this is the kind of tweak that could be done without using too much memory space. Plus it would simply be built off of a function that already exists even though few people use it.

My other tweak that I would like to see is have the MPC respond to sysex messages during playback. It already does this during record, so I dont think this would be much of a major tweak either. That way you could control the mpc's internal mixer from an external midi fader box while you were playing back tracks.

That's cool "D"! and since you brought up the subject of sysex, What do you think of the ability for the MPC to actually store Sysex dumps from other gear and the ability to store everything in a single file?! I can tell your a more advanced user, I would have never thout of choppin' of the samples and spreadin' in the way you described. I'd be happy with just the simple stuff. I guess it's because as you get older and have more responsability, you need redundant tasks to be simple in an effort to save time and increase productivity.

Who else has something to add to the update list? I was hoping to hear from some tech heads that know a little about engineering and coding regarding some other ideas to get around the limited space issues. I've been thinking up some other ways but nothing would fit the criteria of minimal hardware modifications.

extremly good suggestions descartes,

well there is the idea of the flash rom upgrade but is it possible to add another processor on that expansion board? that way the work load can be shared and the original processor can control the hardware and the second will control the software functions.

even then we might be able to use some of the flash memory for more sampling time.

the only major suggestion i have for the mpc.. real time editing while the sequence plays. by editing i mean assigning samples to the 16 pads, resizing cutting samples, changing quantize settings (the swing window), transposing internal drum and midi tracks in real-time, coping tracks and sequences.

the second major suggestion i have is a new step edit with visual reference points, cursor and time sig markers.

my final suggestions.. a song recorder (tracks the sequence changes) and ability to record track mute/un mute on a sequence.

1-0ne

here are some extras

velocity/volume control in the "Note Vari-Fader"
the ability to set your own default programs/settings
16 level with outboard midi gear
some kind of screen saver that kicks in when it's been idle for some time (shuts screen off or some kind of graphic. kicks back on when a pad or button is pressed).
auto pad assignment (assigns samples in chronological order according to pad number or note. doesn't assign samples on a pad with samples already assigned unless you specify by hitting the pad).
Run more than 4 programs at a time.
TC values such as 1/4, 1/2 and even 1/64.
display the names of samples not assigned to programs.

p.s those are suggestions for both the 2k & 2kxl

"The only major suggestions i have for the mpc are real time editing while the sequence plays. by editing i mean assigning samples to the 16 step, resizing cutting samples, changing quantize settings,

my final suggestions.. a song recorder (tracks the sequence changes) and ability to record track mute/un mute on a sequence."

I really like these two comming from you. They seem to be the most reasonable to implement and see allot of use.

I forgot to mention I like the screen saver idea, minus the graphics. In order to extend the service life of the LCD, it needs to be off.

LOL got one more for ya'll cats that hate losing beats

auto save function. if you're like me and you resave your *.all file with a new name to keep track of your progress.. you'll want to have your autosave do that for you (great when doing a brainstorming session). also set a timer for auto save or just have it come on when it's been idle for a while (same timer could be used for the screen saver) or just set the autosave to go on everytime the sequence is stopped.

and one more that is very interesting.

load new samples during playback? (maybe, some way, “chunkate” the process so that it loads pieces that the system can handle at once depending on how much of the processor’s resources are available. it will be slower to load of course but it can't be anything that will cause audio hiccups).

if that last one is possible maybe saving while playing back audio is too. hehe with this much flexibility, you'll never wanna stop playing.

1-0ne

I'd say sampling while playing a sequence, and sample start / end, and both points controlable with the slider in playback.

you guys are mad!!

they will probably implement this in the 1000 before the 2000.

SCSI dump??

oh and that thing with the step edit. don't get me wrong i love step edit the way it is cause it's precise.. but there are sometimes when i'm editing, that i have no idea which note i wanted taken out cause there were alot of things being triggered at the same time so it's kinda hard to decipher.

it could be just an extended "open window" zoom function or along the bottom of the original step edit page. it would be as simple as a chart with dots that represent the notes triggered and the time signature along the bottom with a cursor to show the sequence position (might be really kool to have the note/pad names still above so that you can select them as normal). keep everything else the same though except put something in so we can change the track we are editing in step edit pls!!!

more levels of undo?

would be very handy if the "note vari" fader changed the start/play track position. that way you could target a certain section of the sequence specifically and not have to move ahead each time you stopped the sequence cause you needed to add/redo something in-between bars 3-4. hehe while you're at it make it control song mode like that as well but if possible make it change the tempo too.

oh, and the option to clear tracks during playback. also, the function to rename tracks/sequences during playing back as well.

last one promise,


1-0ne

Some things are just not going to happen because it's too processor intense. And as for puting a co processor on the flash card; I doubt if the bus can handle the bandwidth of information flowing through that port let alone the ability to have the main processor address it to take advantage of it and the code to do it!!! Lord, the code would be huge. It would be like booting up an Pentium 166 with 64MB of RAM onto Windows XP!... I don't think that would fly. But keep tossing them out there, I'm anxious to hear some more. I'm trying to get some information from Forat to see if they know of anyone that has done any underground work on the MPC's so cross your fingers that the request will be positive. I there is any one, it would be interesting to see how willing they are to participate in the keep the MPC2000 alive fund.