Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
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By Smoove03 Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:17 pm
this my fav thread
By Eemo1 Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:25 am
rickrock305 wrote:New York compression, or parallel processing.


the "all buttons in" or "slam" mode on a 1176 (i think the plugins have it too) does wonders with parallel compressing the percussion bus. semi-fast attack with semi-fast release.

it brings shit to life, the sounds start to dance. works extremely well with tracks that have triangles. i think i can whip up an example.

By Muied Lumens Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:36 pm
This is a tweaknique that has a million uses, and is not MPC specific. As a matter of fact, on my MPC 2k I need to export a sample to an external editor and back for it to work... The idea came from an article written by Ethan Duni (from the Akai Mailing list) years ago.

The basic principle is to layer a sample with an inverted copy of itself. You then process the two samples individually, so that the inverted copy cancels out the original in various ways.


An example: On my 2k, I save a sample as wav, import it in to Cool Edit Pro (audio editor) and invert the waveform, and do no other processing before I save it and bring it back into the MPC.

Back in the box, I layer it with the original by letting one pad trigger two samples (remember to rename it to avoid it being replaced with the original sample). make sure the volume is set to the same level for both samples.

Now, in theory when you trigger the original and inverted samples together, you should hear nothing. I say in theory, because when you layer waveforms is this way they cancel each other out completely, resulting in total silence. This does not happen in the 2k because there is a latency of roughly 1 ms when triggering two samples from one pad - in some cases more when there is a lot of processing going on. To compensate for this you have to move the start point of the inverted copy about 30-40 samples back from the start point. In other words, you shorten it by 30-40samples. You will have to try a few different settings to find the one that has the most impact.

Small variations occur when triggering layered samples in the 2k, which you normally wouldn't hear, which is very notisable using this technique - this is why you will never find a spot where the two samples always cancel out completely. But don't despair...

When you have found a point where when you trigger both samples and they sometimes cancel each other out, resulting in silence when you hit the pad, filter one of them. The 2k has only a low pass filter, but when you use this trick, what you will hear is a slightly varying hi pass filter - varying because of the imperfect timing issues with the MPC. This is of course a good thing ... because it can be used to introduce timbral variations in your loops and kits.


If you are still with me, and you understand the principles behind phase cancellation, you will hopefully get some ideas of your own by now. Any filter will become it's own opposite - hi-pass turns into lo-pass, band-pass becomes notch, etc. Apply an envelope to the filter and more possibilities open up. And it dosn't stop with filters - try (very) small changes in pitch - this will cause the samples to drift out of phase with each other, and on short loops (as in 'looped in the trim page') this will produce a very nice tremolo effect.

A lot of experimentation is required but I can promise you that this pays off a hundredfold once you get your head around the idea - and of course anything that inverts phase is useful here, not just audio editors, but some desks have a phase reverse switch, as do mic preamps.

And try effects too! Chorus and reverb may not work too well, but don't take my word for it! If you are in to tweaking sounds, phase cancellation opens up a whole new can of worms!! In most cases, subtle changes to one waveform results in the biggest changes.

Start by processing only one sample if you have difficulties understanding what's actually going on (I know I do!).

Enjoy, and thanks for your tips - this is my first post but I think I'll be hanging out around here more from now on if that is alright for you guys... :D

By Muied Lumens Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:57 pm
Of course I forgot to mention an important thing:

Say you are using a lo-pass filter to create a hi-pass one - if you vary the volume on one of the samples, you can go from lo-pass to hi-pass! Filter your original, fade in the inverted and listen to you filter morphing from one to the other. Begin with a frequency somewhere in the middle ('50' on the 2k). Then start playing with resonance... I tell you, the possibilities are endless!

And an other thing - remember that you reduce your polyphony by using twice the amount of voices than normal - two voices for mono samples, four for stereo.

By Onslaught Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:41 pm
Why isn't this stickied yet??
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By es-k Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:08 pm
mmuied lumens - mannnnnnnnnnn that is some siiiick shiittttttttt

i get what you're sayin.. and it sounds really dope.. but the one thing is.. when you "invert" a sample.. what exactly doyou mean.. it cant be to "reverse" something cause i dont see how the waveforms would cancel eachoether out

can you elaborate a little more?
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By rickrock305 Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:24 pm
es-k wrote:mmuied lumens - mannnnnnnnnnn that is some siiiick shiittttttttt

i get what you're sayin.. and it sounds really dope.. but the one thing is.. when you "invert" a sample.. what exactly doyou mean.. it cant be to "reverse" something cause i dont see how the waveforms would cancel eachoether out

can you elaborate a little more?




he means to flip the polarity, or phase, of the sample.
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By rickrock305 Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:27 pm
ok, here's one that the phase trick reminded me of...use this on gtrs all the time.


there are many variations, but basically you delay one side of a stereo track a little bit later than the other side. take a very short delay, i use the time adjuster plugin for pro tools, and delay one side by less than 100 samples. you can then flip the phase on one side of the stereo track as well. really spreads out the track to make it sound like its coming from outside of your speakers. just be sure to sum it to mono to make sure it doesn't cancel out too much. adjust the delay times to how you want it. Cool for guitars, background vocals, synths, etc.

By Muied Lumens Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:11 pm
When you invert (reverse the phase) a waveform you create a mirror image of it - zoom in on a bass drum sample so that you can see the waveform clearly rising and falling. Then align it with an inverse copy of it. They have to be perfectly aligned. I don't know if any MPC's can do this, but most if not all audio editors can - look for 'reverse polarity', 'invert sample', 'reverse phase' or something along those lines.

You will see that where the waveform rises on one, it will fall on the other. The sound has not been reversed to play backwards, it has simply been flipped around so that positive values has become negative ones and wise versa. In most cases you will not be able to hear any difference between them when listened to individually. But if you play them both together, and they both have the same volume and panning and no other processing has been done to them - you will hear nothing! However the computer or sampler is still playing the samples and using up voices to do so. Why?

Put simply, the waveform display on a sampler or computer editor shows you (on a microscopical level) the movement of the speaker cones - when it rises, the cone will move outwards, when it falls below the 'zero' line, the cone will move inwards. The cones in turn produce tiny (and very fast) pressure changes to the air which our ears pick up as 'sound'. If no signal is sent to your monitor speaker, the cone will rest in the middle position which represents the 'zero amplitude' line that goes horisontally through the centre of the (bass drum) sample.

Now play two samples with opposite polarity against each other. One will tell the speaker that it must move its cone outwards, while at the same time the other will tell it to move inwards - the result being that it does not move at all. Silence.

The best way to see this in action is to use a multitrack editor where you can see both the waveforms at the same time with a close-up zoom. It can be difficult to understand at first, but play around with volume changes first. When you reduce the volume on one waveform/track, the sound gets louder. As long as everything is kept the same, all you will hear is silence. Of course, nothing is perfect, and as you process a sound in a computer, small irregularities are introduced to the sample, which you will be able to hear even if you shouldn't in theory.

I don't know if this makes it clearer - maybe someone else can explain better? I'll see if I can find Ethan's original article somewhere...

Sorry for long post..
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By sknkwrkz Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:37 pm
i love phase reverse :lol:

adds a fresh new spin on old samples that have been sitting onyour harddrive gathering digital dust.

something you really have to try out as opposed to just reading about to get.

es-k, in audacity its called "invert" and in cubase its just phase reverse.
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By mike roca Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:40 pm
is it possible to do this effect on a sample in logic?
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By es-k Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:12 am
this thread is turning into a bible of sorts...

NICE TIPS guys... good good good shit.. im excited to try some of this out
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By Teletran1 Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:36 pm
This is probably the thread that has deserved most to become a sticky, and yet?

Come one, mods. Get on that shit.