2007, MPC2000XL, Sampling

swordphish wrote:I'm not sure where my error is...
I think I meant for: Out(DAC)->16bit/44kHz- >In(Digi002,ADC)
to be: Out(DAC)->In(Digi002,ADC)

Ok, as long as you're aware that your MPC produces an analog sound anyway, just as a 4000 would do.

swordphish wrote:Could this 'grimey sound' be some sort of flaw in the techniques of the producers? Could this 'grimey sound' be why I have trouble getting my tracks mixed?

How do you do your mixdown then? Could it be a flaw in your technique maybe?

swordphish wrote:

You're wrong there. DAC (meaning Digital-Analog Conversion) produces an analog signal - just like the one that comes from your turntable. How it differs from the original now only depends on how you treat it in the machine (EQ, effects etc...) and a little bit on the AD/DA chips of the machine.

I'm not sure where my error is...
I think I meant for: Out(DAC)->16bit/44kHz- >In(Digi002,ADC)
to be: Out(DAC)->In(Digi002,ADC)
Anyway, ADC/DAC isn't why I'm posting this question (I think). Mainly it's about the actual sound that the world has been given by the MPC2000.

no, it doesn't...I wish people would stop saying this...when this piece first dropped, that was one of the downfalls of it, it was "too clean" most people said...Now all of a sudden, almost 10 years later, it suddenly has this grimey sound?? nah, not buying it...

I disagree. The MPC2000 definitely has some colorizations. Whether these colorizations add anything to the grimey sound - I don't know. Anyway, this is kind of where I hit a crossroads. Could this 'grimey sound' be some sort of flaw in the techniques of the producers? Could this 'grimey sound' be why I have trouble getting my tracks mixed?

ok....all of a sudden, overnight the MPC 2000 just magically got this grime you speak of...

Ok, as long as you're aware that your MPC produces an analog sound anyway, just as a 4000 would do.

I am, thankfully, aware of the difference between digital and analog and their corresponding signals. And that's why I would prefer to dedicate a high-res/bit-rate ADC (such as the one in the Digi 002) for vinyl sampling. However I'd be willing to use the MPC4000 if it's anything like the MPC2000XL (which I'm hearing isn't necessarily the case).

How do you do your mixdown then? Could it be a flaw in your technique maybe?

Oh it most definitely can be me, don't get me wrong. However I've been relatively successful with beats made in Reason/ProTools...I'm not sure why...maybe they just sound better to people. But to be honest, where I've gotten a reaction from people with these beats, I'm not really pleased with a beat unless it was made with a drum-machine. I've started to incorporate my MPC2000 into my setup as a straight MIDI controller with awesome results; but I'm still wondering if it's possible for me to get the same results with a beat directly off the MPC2000 itself. I guess I'll just have to keep researching.

With that said, is there a way to transparently track (no DAC) from the MPC2000XL?

ok....all of a sudden, overnight the MPC 2000 just magically got this grime you speak of...

I'd say the "grime" isn't necessarily from the MPC2000 itself, maybe more from the way the MPC2000 is used as an instrument and as a piece of studio gear. This is why I'm asking...I know the MPC2000 colors the sound...any a/d conversion does...but perhaps the "grime" is more than just colorization itself....maybe it's the techniques that are used (e.g., sample chopping and the nuances specific to the MPC, drum/sample layering, etc.)...the procedures that are used (e.g., tracking: analog->digital->analog->digital->...->CD vs. analog->digital->digital->...->CD)....and/or a combination thereof.

i don't know if i'd go as far as saying it has a grimey sound but theres definately some coloration going on there. I would say samples sound harsher in the high frequencies in the 2k than what they do in my s6000. And the 2k filter is pretty easy to pick listening to tracks.

Can the same exact beat made on an MPC2000XL compete against the same beat made on a newer drum-machine/equipment?

Each machine has it's own limitations. How far those limitations are stretched and exploited depend on the producer.

With that said, is there a way to transparently track (no DAC) from the MPC2000XL?

Digi spdif coax out, that's all you get, 2 channels, no more.

The MPC2000 definitely has some colorizations. Whether these colorizations add anything to the grimey sound - I don't know. Anyway, this is kind of where I hit a crossroads. Could this 'grimey sound' be some sort of flaw in the techniques of the producers? Could this 'grimey sound' be why I have trouble getting my tracks mixed?

Everyone has their own internally perceived degree of grimyness, don't you think?

when this piece first dropped, that was one of the downfalls of it, it was "too clean" most people said...Now all of a sudden, almost 10 years later, it suddenly has this grimey sound?? nah, not buying it...

I remember hearing this stuff also.

i don't know if i'd go as far as saying it has a grimey sound but theres definately some coloration going on there. I would say samples sound harsher in the high frequencies in the 2k than what they do in my s6000. And the 2k filter is pretty easy to pick listening to tracks.

Have you ever run your MPC through a tube compressor or other tube equipment? I read somewhere that this is a good idea...

Each machine has it's own limitations. How far those limitations are stretched and exploited depend on the producer.

Right on. But I'm still wondering if anybody has actually (scientifically) compared, say, the 2000XL vs. the 3000 or 4000 in terms of sound quality.

Everyone has their own internally perceived degree of grimyness, don't you think?

Definitely. Not only are our ears/minds biased, but almost everything in this field is subjective, and that's why I have trouble taking some of the more common answers/solutions with more than a grain of salt. Even worse, my partners in grime seem to take the 'no questions asked' approach to music...and that is why I am on this board asking these questions.