Akai MPC4000 vs. Roland MV-8000

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Originally posted by jahrome:
Reading is fundamental...it will crush illiteracy....
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Nik wrote:
What the hell are you talking about?

If I have to tell you that then perhaps you are in the wrond thread...

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Originally posted by jahrome:
With that said...what does studio monitors have anything to do with anything.
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Nik wrote:
Oh, I dunno, maybe because it's the most important aspect of a studio? Or the fact that you need to spend a good chunk of that $2000 to get a good set?

Forgive me if I am wrong, but were we not talking about an MPC and PC based workstation? If we were, than monitors are not valid in this conversation. MPCs don't come with monitors last time I checked.

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Originally posted by jahrome:
A cheap Dell is more than powerful enough to run a software based workstation.
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Nik wrote:
Not true, good way to fvck up your head trying to get that to work though!

From your comments it appears you have very knowledge on software based multi-track recording workstations and/or what power a $500-600 Dell PC has today. The PC I am using to type this was previously my DAW. It is a P4, 3.06Ghz w/ 512MB of RAM with support for dual monitors. You can easily get a $500-$600 Dell that has equal/more power to run any major software. So I can understand why you may be confused on how to optimize a PC to record, but I can do it in my sleep without much effort. There are numerous resources online that will help you do this. I was able to customize my PC the first time around...no problems.

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Originally posted by jahrome:
No..I am not talking about the Dell computers that you are using to read this..the one that is full of spyware, shareware, and whatever else **** you have installed. Building a PC workstation (that will not be used for the internet) is easy to put together under $2000.
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Nik wrote:
Wrong. About $2000 will get you a solid workstation. Without software or plugins. BTW don't presume to know anything about the computer I use, thanks.

If you can't build/buy yourself a workstation for under $2000, I have to assume that you don't know what you are talking about or don't know much about computers/or their current prices. I am speaking from experience. I just gave you an example of a Mac workstation for $1500 which inlcudes software/plug-ins, and an interface. And you still have $500 to play with. Go PC and you will have an additional $400 to play with.

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Originally posted by jahrome:
An iMac, Pro Tools LE, and MPD24 can be purchased for $1500. You still have $500 to spare...for Reason...or Bias Peak or even Ableton Live An MPC is not touching this set-up. I hope I don't need to tell you what features you get from this set-up versus an MPC.......
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Nik wrote:
I don't need to tell you what features you get from an MPC that that setup won't get you:

* Multiple professional quality analog outs
* Hardware pads
* Multiple midi outs
* Professional interface

Who gives a flying fvck about extra 'features' in software. KISS!

Let me help you out because it seems you are having some trouble.

1. The analog outs of the MPC is used for recording into a hardware/software recording workstation. For this conversation, this is not important because we are comparing an MPC and a PC workstation. The PC workstation is a standalone product and doesn't need to interface with anything else. But with that said...a Pro Tools LE set-up has high quality analog inputs/outputs that has better specs than any of these newer MPCs.

2. Hardware pads? Why do you think that I included an MPD24? You do know those are MPC pads right?

3. Multiple MIDI outs? Is for an MPC to control external sound modules. Well, with the PC workstation, all the sound modules will be software based making extra outs not necessary. If you wanted to add MIDI inputs/outputs anyway, you can easily pick up a Yamaha or M-Audio MIDI interface for a reasonable price.

4. Professional interface? Why would a software workstation be any less professional than an MPC? Buying an MPC does not make you a professional as many professionals find an MPC limiting compared to what a software workstation can do.

5. So I take it that you don't care about software features by your comments?

Well, here they are anyway:
1. Multi-track hard disk recording (MPCs do not really have this)
2. Dynamics and effects that will crush an MPC
3. Full size monitor
4. More powerful processor and more memory
5. Extensive editing features that are too many to name
6. Actual mixing/mastering
7. Mult-timbral synths or samplers
8. More powerful sequencer

There is more..much more. The MPCs hardware is more tightly integrated with its software and more portable..which are strenghths. However, the MPCs software is primitive when compared to a PC based DAW.

Nik wrote:
An MPC sitting in a room with a pair of cans is NOT a studio. Don't fool yourself. It's a writing setup maybe. Sure you can do tracks. Still isn't a studio. Minimum for a studio is a desk, patchbay, quality monitors.

Anyway, it's all semantics.

You got 1 out of 3 correct

jahrome wrote:for the price of an MV or highend MPC, you can put together a kick azz music production studio

That is the comment we are debating. And you are still full of $hit. I have been building and running computer DAW's since 1995.

I am not here to have some stupid internet dick fight, go make your kewl trax in your $2000 dell PC studio. You must make em hell of a fast and be rolling in production royalties to have so much time to concoct your lengthy, condesending, and pedantic troll forum posts here.

nik wrote:
That is the comment we are debating. And you are still full of $hit. I have been building and running computer DAW's since 1995.

I am not here to have some stupid internet dick fight, go make your kewl trax in your $2000 dell PC studio. You must make em hell of a fast and be rolling in production royalties to have so much time to concoct your lengthy, condesending, and pedantic troll forum posts here.

So because you can't build a DAW for $2000 I am a troll? If the debate is can you build a DAW for $2000 more powerful than an MPC, the answer is hell yes. If you have been building DAW's since 1995, then you must not be very good at it and/or you have never used an MPC. I started using an MPC in 1997 and PC based DAWs a few years after that. I already broke down how much you could spend. Take the time to re-read, do some research, and come back humble..and apologize. That is what I would do if I was wrong.

Hate Dell all you want, but if you visit some of the PC DAW forums on the internet, you will find plenty of people (even in different countries) that have Dell based DAWs. Also, an iMac is more than capable of running a DAW.

By the way...my main DAW is custom built by me....and it cost a little more than $2000 for the hardware (excluding monitors) and over $4000 in software (paid/registered...no piracy here)...just throwin that out there.

Well these are discussions between geeks and nerds...of course it is boring...especially since it has been covered hundreds of times. MPC vs MV vs PC vs Mac

But hopefully..someone reading these threads can find some useful information and just not assume that you can't find a low cost solution for music production...because you can.

Nite nite....

I see to be an advanced member you don't need to know nothing.

There is not an Mpc out today that will beat todays computers plus software in the same price range.
This is with quality I/O's. Do the common sense thing computer advances in technology every two years the mpc stays the same. Software and computers becomes cheaper the mpc becomes cheaper but with the same programming.
Software changes and can be ran on different machines. The mpc is stuck with its I/O's the pc can change its I/O's.

Newegg pc custom built $1061 an extra 100 for you to build it for me. )

Parts: 2 dvd burners $80 mpc 1"only burn cd reads dvds " $149
antec case $99 mpc "Case included"
hard drive 500gb $149 mpc 100gb $120
monitor $100 mpc "little screen"
1gb memory $67 mpc"512mb is the limit 4000 only"$1-149
mother board $50 -100
E6600 "core Duo"$316
you build $100 mpc"free"
windows xp$ 100-149 mpc" buggy O.S also"
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Sound card, many to choose from but my choice will be the PreSonus Fire pod Fire wire Interface with Preamp s $499 with Cubase le 48tracks audio and unlimited midi.The sound card smashes the mpc all of them. 24/96 khz all the time no 8 for 16bit and 4 for 24bit 96khz. last but no least your fruity loop or reasons 3.0 $400 . I still have about $500 to toy with. Mpd24 $220"your MPc pads DUHHHH!!!!
Midi keyboard $200 "O" recycle to chop like the mpc $200 add it up and thats with todays top notch computer hardware 2580 over $80 the mp fully load everything legit no short cuts $2500 I used to own one www.myspace.com/djrik The only thing the mpc has on the pc is that it is compact. but guess what ill email my files and download once Im where I need to be. I can lower the specifications and still smash all of the mpc's line ."BOTH MACHINES NEEDS SOUNDS" this is where they are equal. factory sound quit PLAYING. I forgot he said it had midi 2 in 4 out
for my pc Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU) Micro Lite 5x5 Bus $140

TOTAL $2720 MPC 4000 DEAD!!!!

I really want to get the Roland it can do much. There is one problem:

It feels like crap!

i went to the store to try it out man i just couldent get a feel for the thing, the pads dont feel like the MPC, the quantization is weird.. the roll button is stiff.. maybe its the settings but damn if i could feel that shit out.

There is nowhere to try out a mpc4000 anymore.. only the 2500 and frankly I dont like how the 2500 feels like the cheap 1000. I like the 200XL/3000 feel.. liek a REAL MACHINE.

Im thinking about buying a 4000 but worried since i have never tried it hands on..........

djrikki7414 wrote:I see to be an advanced member you don't need to know nothing.

There is not an Mpc out today that will beat todays computers plus software in the same price range.

My argument isn't that a computer DAW can't 'beat' (whatever that means) an MPC, but that the MPC is still a viable option and I STILL think it is more expensive than you guys think to make a PROPER DAW, not just a cheepo one. I don't consider the 4000 to be a cheep interface. For all your examples, there are things missing anyway. A screen for $50? Uhh, that'll be a nice screen! 4 outs at 96k? 4000 does TEN outs at 96k. Secondhand 4000 is what $1500 now? How about a quiet PSU for that DAW? Quality motherboard? Video card? I would consider the RME fireface to offer a similar output capability to a 4000 with extra cards - the fireface is $1500 by itself... etc etc

We could argue these points all day

This is not saying that I would nessasarily advise someone to get an MPC over a DAW setup, nor to say that a nice DAW setup isn't a good thing. I am saying for ME, I prefer the interface and workflow on an MPC, and I still consider it to be good value compared to computers. I don't care about upgrading software, changing OS every 2 years, color screens etc... I want a box I can get totally into and use as an instrument. Also, i think once you get past the 'PC with a midi keyboard' setup and want to expand, the MPC offers a nice way to do that.

In anycase, if y'all are so sold on not using an MPC and using a DAW, why you guys hanging on an MPC forum?

Of course its possible to build a $2000 PC DAW thats light years ahead of the 4000 and mv8000 in terms of processing power, but of course processing power isnt sh*t.

I love working on Ableton Live with my padkontrol and Axiom49, the features on Live blows away both the 4000 and 8000. Though the point here is that working on my 2000xl or MV8000 is a whole different level of fun. With the 8000 and 2000xl I dont get distracted into watching porn or browsing reddit.com.

Folks, lets just pray that this March sees some great announcements from Akai.

Then disconnect your machine from the internet:)
and that different level thats some bs I've work with all of them. some people here are like the old fashion type afraid of change.

I see your just slow in the brain. All the part is of top quality.
And by the way my PC have a RME 9652 24 in and out digital how much for akai's 4000 Adat out ? $349. once you buy that mpc your A$$ is stuck with what they give you. OH I forgot the 2000 don't have one. Also $1500 for a mpc 4000 used thats eBay - 2700 new that pc description i gave you was for new."If I go the eBay I will certainly smash your Mpc's. when it boils down If you work with Mpc's you had to learn them. If you worked with software you had to learn them. I've worked with hardware since 1994 and hands down this new technology is become cost effective. I can chop samples and continue the work flow just as I did on a mpc. O btw MPC's EFFECTS SUCK and you know it to.

nik wrote:

djrikki7414 wrote:I see to be an advanced member you don't need to know nothing.

There is not an Mpc out today that will beat todays computers plus software in the same price range.

My argument isn't that a computer DAW can't 'beat' (whatever that means) an MPC, but that the MPC is still a viable option and I STILL think it is more expensive than you guys think to make a PROPER DAW, not just a cheepo one. I don't consider the 4000 to be a cheep interface. For all your examples, there are things missing anyway. A screen for $50? Uhh, that'll be a nice screen! 4 outs at 96k? 4000 does TEN outs at 96k. Secondhand 4000 is what $1500 now? How about a quiet PSU for that DAW? Quality motherboard? Video card? I would consider the RME fireface to offer a similar output capability to a 4000 with extra cards - the fireface is $1500 by itself... etc etc

We could argue these points all day

This is not saying that I would nessasarily advise someone to get an MPC over a DAW setup, nor to say that a nice DAW setup isn't a good thing. I am saying for ME, I prefer the interface and workflow on an MPC, and I still consider it to be good value compared to computers. I don't care about upgrading software, changing OS every 2 years, color screens etc... I want a box I can get totally into and use as an instrument. Also, i think once you get past the 'PC with a midi keyboard' setup and want to expand, the MPC offers a nice way to do that.

In anycase, if y'all are so sold on not using an MPC and using a DAW, why you guys hanging on an MPC forum?

I hang around because there is other things you can learn. Video cards for DAW don't need to be top of the line. finish forking over all that money for all your hardware. http://www.zzounds.com/item--AKAMPC4000PLUS
That looks like $2799 to me. Thats stupid if your machine will be stationary. And I see your electronic skills suck to once it convert back to analog thats not 96khz you need the adat card and it will not do 24bit 96khz on all of the outputs. You ask why Ill tell you because at 24bit 44.1khz all the outs "adat can be used" if you double that sample rate this will combine two channels together just to give you the 96khz format. this is true for RME cards also.

The thing is: it's not only about cost. It's mainly about workflow. If you can get more productive with an MPC or MV, it's worth the extra cost and effort. I myself love to be able to make some music outside of my PC, since I have to program those things for a living.

moyphee wrote:I own the 4000 and MV. I like them both but the MV gets you up and going a lot faster. The MPC will feel better if you have prior mpc experience.

The timing issues with the MV arrise when the PPQN is set at too high in reslution. If you adjust the grid strength and PPQN there is no such timing problem. I've had the MV more than 2 years now and it plays back exactly what i put in it. It can be as loose or rigid as you set it up to be.

* Everyone can hit the start note spot on. Very few can play in perfect time with the the PPQN set at a high level and a moderate grid strength on the MV or any other sequencer.

Where did you have the PPQN set?

would it be a case of turning the ppqn and the grid down or just the ppqn down or the ppqn down and the grid up?
Cheers

It's more setting the machine to record at the complexity you're capable of playing at. If you're doing robotic 4\4 or just simple stuff you'll pick up far more timing detail than you want thus recording your own timing errors with too high of a PPQN resolution.

Turning off features like "Input Quantize" while recording also reduces the recording of errors in timing. Anyone that takes the time to understand the options listed on the MV's Quantize screen will have no problems. In most case you'll find compaining users don't use the screen guide or dig into the manual to really understand all of the parameters available and how they affect the programming.

* You can adjust all quantize parameters from track to track. So each MIDI track will have it's own custom resolution and quantize settings. You do this under Track Parameter tab.

Using a 120 resolution , turning Input quantizing off, and setting the type to" Grid + 100%" is a great universal starting point.

*** I sold my 4000 a while back after getting deeper into the MV. I haven't looked back. YMMV