Realtime Start issue-Newbie thing...

Haven't had the chance to check this over here yet (though I discussed it a bit with my roommate).

Some comments on your posts in the meantime:

First, which MPC manual + page number makes this reference to a default count-in in overdub mode? I'm curious because I've never seen it. There is a ref to a default REC count-in, but that's the thing you disabled in CLICK mode. I've never experienced such a feature when using OVERDUB and would think it would cause a lot of problems if I did.

If this delay is on the MPC end and your theory about the overdub being engaged is correct, you should see the overdub LED light up after pressing the PLAY START on the Nuo. Unless you are experiencing an error I doubt this is the case as there is currently no MPC recognized midi command to engage OVERDUB externally. There is also no "control change" message to adjust BPM yet -- you're supposed to do that by changing the BPM on the device sending the master clock.

One way you can check if this is a MPC problem is to try using external sync with any other midi sequencer device (computer/softseq/midi interface or any cheapo "groovebox" product)

I'm wondering if the Nuo has a delay on it's clock send. That might produce the problem you are describing. That sorta might make some sense since it's more of a "DJ" device as opposed to a sequencer. My roomate tells me the midi does have some quirks and it may also be possible that the internal software isn't quite there yet. BTW, have you tried assigning the Nuo BPM adjust to one of the knobs the way it describes in the manual? That would at least solve your fiddling with the tap tempo issue. Of course you'll have to remember where to set the knob to get a particular BPM range.

Ok enough thinking out loud I think I just might try this now. My roomate isn't here so I'm not sure how far I'll get without his input at the moment (I don't know if he's changed any of the Nuo parameters) but we'll let ya know....

Ok I gave it a first try.

I was able to receive and sync the MPC to the Nuo's clock signal with no problem, but I couldn't seem to get the Nuo to send any Start/stop/continue commands in any of the switch positions -- I had to start the MPC with it's own controls synced to the EXT clock. This may be because of the way the roomie has configured the mixer midi output -- won't know till I get a chance to ask him later. I did notice that the clock signal seems pretty constant (unless you hold down the tap to disable it).

Anyway we'll try again later when he's around. Till then...

One more update:

I talked with roomie and he confirmed that he'd changed the Play start/stop controls to send different messages to work with some equipment he was using. He may be hanging around tomorrow night and he said we can try re-flashing back to the play/start controls to see what's up.

Till then...

Thanks again,

The reference to over dubbing is on pg 13 of the 2.0 Manual if you want to check it out. I don't doubt that there may be some DJ consideration and there may be a pause in the MIDI signal, especially because what happens and how it happens is so consistent-I just can figure out how to change that.

One thing I'm confused on-I'm using the lower buttons and setting them to a realtime start in the Nuo 4 software-the left (Push Switch 3) to start and the right (Push Switch 4) to stop. When you set up the real time start, how long did you wait? Did it not start at all?

Thanks!

I checked Pg.13 but I don't see the ref to a OVERDUB count-in, only REC (item #6). There is a ref to a default two-bar loop before switching to OVERDUB (item #7) but there's no reference to a count-in, only the default bars before it switches from REC to OVERDUB. All that stuff only applies to recording anyway, it has no effect in normal play mode.

I could not start from the Nuo because my roommate had dissabled the play/start commands and assigned those buttons to other functions. So no, the MPC did not start or stop at all unless I used it's own front-panel controls. In this case, that's exactly the way it should have worked.

We're going to re-enable play/start on the buttons tomorrow nite to see what happens.

Something occurred to me:

If this isn't the mixer causing the delay and really is an MPC prob, It's possible that there's some kind of software hang up going on with the count-in toggle. If count-in is set to OFF does it still do this when you use the MPC"s front panel PLAY or REC transport controls? It shouldn't. If it does, I would recommend trying a factory reset (hold ERASE key when you turn the power on). You will have to reset all your global parameters after this (including the count-in). If that doesn't fix it.... well....

Anyway jury's still out on the mixer till we get to mess with it tomorrow...

Hey Electrik_Muz-

I was wondering if you've had a chance to try the start thing? I'm at a loss. I've put a call into Ecler and expect to speak to them tomorrow but any other feedback would be greatly appriciated!

Hey Electrik_Muz-

I was wondering if you've had a chance to try the start thing? I'm at a loss. I've put a call into Ecler and expect to speak to them tomorrow but any other feedback would be greatly appriciated!

Hey Crates --

The roommate had to do a studio reorganization & cleanup last night and it took longer than he thought it would so we haven't had the chance yet. I'll keep you posted -- I'm interested in exploring the Nuo myself.

Hey elektrik_muz-

I just got a response from the Ecler people that makes some sense...

That is something you must adjust on your Akai MPC1000. The NUO4 send a
standard MIDI START command and you must adjust your Akai MPC1000 bars.

Adjusting the bars is something common in all sequencers and has
nothing to
do with the NUO4. Usually sequencers display the bars when they receive
a
MIDI START command from an external controller.

I hope this helps you.

Best regards,

Jordi Peiró
Product Manager

So if I'm understanding you correctly this is something like a 0-127 vs 1-128 type of issue? Meaning the Nuo is sending a command to start at a particular place and the sequence in the MPC doesn't have a bar there...?

I'm not infront of the MPC now but I'm wondering if its something like that?

OK we've been busy over here lately and just got a chance to try some stuff last night.

First -- did you try any of the suggestions I laid out above? What happened?

I haven't connected MPC back up to the Nuo lately, but I was able to mess with the Nuo a bit last night w/a PC running the Nuo control software and Midi Ox. I switched the button controls back to stop/start/continue and found that the messages will appear immediately in both the Nuo software monitor and Midi Ox (realtime filter has to be disabled in the Ox to see it). I'm not seeing any delay whatsoever.

If you have a midi interface for your computer, you can also use midi ox to send the same realtime commands into the MPC to see if it does the same thing. If you get a count-in with that option disabled, you either need to do the MPC factory reset, or you have a defective MPC. If it only does it with the Nuo, the only explanation I can think of is that there's some kind of garbled message being transmitted along with the "real" midi message that's causing an MPC malfunction. The MAC midi monitor has an option to let you see all the garbled non-midi messages that certain gear will generate -- I haven't seen this in Midi Ox. Try the other suggestions first since this is the least likely explanation and even if it's the problem there won't be much you can do about it in that case.

BTW the stuff the Ecler guy told you does not make any sense. It sounds like he is confusing your problem with a standard procedure used for locking sync when using Midi Time Code. Basically, MTC requires a few extra empty bars to be laid at the beginning of a sequence to give enough time for the sync to lock up. Totally irrelevant in this case since I'm pretty sure the Nuo doesn't even do MTC, only midi clock and your problem isn't even the clock but something to do with the START command.

Hey elektrik_muz

First -- did you try any of the suggestions I laid out above? What happened?

I've played with a couple of them-I honestly kind of gave up and moved on. Recently though, I installed the JJ OS and now I get a 'MIDI SYNC' message on the MPC that just blinks for 2 bars when I try it-not sure why it would take that long to sync...? I will say I'm using the stock songs-I have tried this with any of my or my music partners stuff yet.

Unfortunatly for me, I don't have much to work with as far as other MIDI devices (a Kaoss pad and and CDX-neither a good sync devices due to the 'Tap' tech IMH-and annoyed O). I'm glad the Nuo worked at all. I do remember trying the Ecler with Ableton and having no problems, but it was for 10 minutes...

The info from Ecler seemed a little misguided-I was just hope that it may be a 0 bar vs 1 bar type of miscommunication (wild hopes...)...This just seems like such a simple thing I feel like I'm missing something completely obvious...?

When you installed the JJOS (which one?) did you do the factory reset afterwards and then change the count-in toggle back to OFF?

You must have a computer available to program the Nuo. Midi Ox is free and you really need a program like that to troubleshoot midi problems. You do need a computer midi interface if you want to send the Midi Ox test messages back into the MPC.

Forget about this 0 bar 1 bar stuff. Even if you are not using an external clock, START should make stuff START with no delay unless the MPC count-in toggle is set to anything besides OFF.

I just got the new JJ OS-4.-something-, I did turn the click and count in off...

Sorry-LOL-my bad-I assumed 'MIDI Ox' was some sort of slang for Midi Aux (hey, I said I was new )

I'll look it up and try again. I just want to know why this is happening...!

Ok

Just make sure to do that factory reset every time you upgrade. You'd be surprised how many people had weird unexplainable problems because they thought they could just load up a new OS and go...