MIDI Troubles

I've been trying to sync my Digi 001 to my MPC 2000XL via MIDI for the past few hours and just cant figure it out.

When I go to MIDI > MIDI Beat Clock, the MPC isn't even listed just the DIGI 001 and some Microsoft GW Synth.

Can anybody point me towards what settings I need to use on both machines to get them to sync with each other?

SharifTK wrote:I've been trying to sync my Digi 001 to my MPC 2000XL via MIDI for the past few hours and just cant figure it out.

When I go to MIDI > MIDI Beat Clock, the MPC isn't even listed just the DIGI 001 and some Microsoft GW Synth.

Can anybody point me towards what settings I need to use on both machines to get them to sync with each other?

The Mpc won't be listed as that page is referring to the available Midi ports on your computer that you can route your Midi beat clock to. Select the 001 port on that page and Beat clock should be sent to the MPC.

And don't forget to set mpc for receiving the Midi Clock.
By the way,if you have the smpte option installed in your machine,try using it.It is way more accurate than midi clock,cause it has the absolute time message instead of relying on the beats and quarter notes.
I tested it a few days ago and it works excellent when it comes to syncing.

harlej wrote:And don't forget to set mpc for receiving the Midi Clock.
By the way,if you have the smpte option installed in your machine,try using it.It is way more accurate than midi clock,cause it has the absolute time message instead of relying on the beats and quarter notes.
I tested it a few days ago and it works excellent when it comes to syncing.

You are right that MTC/SMPTE is more accurate than Midi Beat clock but it definitely should not be used if you are slaving to a tempo from an external sequencer.

All sequencers/Midi devices have slightly varying interpretations/implementations of tempo and they usually drift apart over time if you use SMPTE/MTC.

SMPTE is used when you need absolute time. Midi Beat clock is when you want to sync tempos.

If anyone is having trouble with Beat clock:

The Midi beat clock is transmitted at 24 ppq (pulses per quarter note). The actual Beat clock signal is a series of pulses. These pulses are sensitive to noise in your studio (Hums, Rf and electrical interference)

Because of this the clock signal in the cable the signal becomes distorted and the receiving device (MPC etc). sees these distortions as errors so its clock gets screwed up.

You can improve this by using high quality short midi cables and avoiding draping the cables over any device that could cause interference in the cable.

Here's what I did just recently:

I recorded smpte from mpc (in song mode) as wav. The song in mpc had 2 tempo changes.
Next, I put this wav with smpte into track in ableton live 6 and set mpc to receive the smpte code.
After that I tracked down the whole song from the mpc - of course it was the same song that I recorded the smpte code from.Every track from the machine on separated track in the ableton. All of that in sync: mpc received smpte from ableton-master.

I don't have the 8 outs so I had to make this recording in 5 takes - 1 for each track.
The purpose was to check the possible drifts in timing and possible very very slight delays in mpc start, when it was receiving smpte code.

Results - no delays, no drifts. Excellent timing and of course tempo changes (2 times from 85.4 bpm to 99 bpm) were recorded in perfect sync.

Soon I'm going to do the same test with midi clock, since it can follow the tempo changes and I'll check if any (even small) timing problems occur.

It's just that I cannot trust the midi clock when it comes to syncing 2 devices for tracking down whole song in perfect sync. Maybe this test will give me some more information. Of course it's easier with midi clock, no need to record smpte stripe - just press play. We'll see...

All sequencers/Midi devices have slightly varying interpretations/implementations of tempo and they usually drift apart over time if you use SMPTE/MTC.

How can they drift, when the smpte code is pre-recorded and it has way more information than midi clock?

Just asking to be convinced, not to start some sort of silly discussion. We all have to use the codes that work for us the best, not the ones that people recommend as the ultimate ones

harlej wrote:

All sequencers/Midi devices have slightly varying interpretations/implementations of tempo and they usually drift apart over time if you use SMPTE/MTC.

How can they drift, when the smpte code is pre-recorded and it has way more information than midi clock?

Just asking to be convinced, not to start some sort of silly discussion. We all have to use the codes that work for us the best, not the ones that people recommend as the ultimate ones

It's not about whatever the ultimate ones are. I'm just pointing out the protocols as they were designed to be used. If Smpte works for you then stick with it.

You are right. Smpte's resolution far exceeds that of Midi Beat clock and is far more accurate as a positional reference. But it tells each slave machine nothing of the speed it should be playing. In a nutshell, smpte tells a machine when to play it and Beat clock tells a slave machine when to play it (SPP see below) and also how fast it should be playing.

The tempos on each device are derived from the internal hardware chips. Minute fluctuations in voltage going to each chip on the device along with jitter will cause the clocks/tempos to vary slightly. You may not notice this at first but over the course of a song it may drift apart. The smpte is still giving the positional reference but the timing (speed) is off.

Midi Beat clock also contains the SPP (song position pointer) which is a crude positional reference. You would notice this in song mode on the MPC if you start some ways into the song it will pick up from there. But the clock is always derived from one source ie. the master device (sequencer etc.)

I would be the first to say use whatever method works. But in my own experience I have found anomalies between tempos on different machines and they do drift over time when using smpte/MTC.

Thank you guys so much for all the help!

I think I got it to sync properly.

I can actually pan through bars on my MPC using Pro Tools now so I'm pretty sure I got it correctly. I also had to set my MPC tempo to (MAS) instead of (SEQ) so the external sequencer can control it.

In the MPC I have it set to:

CH 1 RECEIVE: MIDI BEAT CLOCK, 25 FRAMES (or 30 I think), MMC: ON
CH A: SEND: same settings

I see two SMTPE slots on the back of my MPC... is that what you are talking about?

Also, is it possible for Pro Tools to control my MPC and then have the MPC control my Motif at the same time? I can't get to sync my Motif with pro tools at all and this is CAUSING HELL WHEN I AM TRACKING! Plus the Motif only has one set of MIDI ports... so I don't have to disconnect my MPC MIDI cables everytime I need to hook up Motif to my DIGI.

Any tips? Thanks for everything so far.

Glad to hear that you've got it working in sync now

I see two SMTPE slots on the back of my MPC... is that what you are talking about?

These slots (for 1/4" jacks) are in every mpc 2000xl,but you need the optional internal chip to use the smpte code. You can get these chips online , I got mine (used one but working with no problems) from them http://www.roguemusic.com/ - very cheap

When you install the chip,you will see the SMPTE option in the midi settings (IN/OUT) screen on your mpc.It will go: midi clock, midi time code, smpte.

Thanks! any tips on the Motif problem?>