Composing on an MPC

Hey what's up y'all - I have an MPC 60 I love and have been cranking out pretty cool 2 and 4 bar patterns...but that's it.

What I'm curious is how you all make complete tracks on the MPC. I know you can string different sequences together and what not, but any advice or thoughts on writing linear songs? Or do most people just track out to a PC and work with the audio?

The problem I'm running into is that I can create a loop, make three variations of it, and string them in various ways as sequences, but am wondering about the best way to write, for example, a non-repetitive linear piano track on top of everything, then a sax on top of that, etc.

Actually, not so much "how" per se, but what techniques do you guys use to keep the flow going yet stay flexible for detailed editing? Let's say I have these Sequences and want to do this in Song mode:

Seq 1 - Repeat 3 times
Seq 2 - Variation repeat 2 times
Seq 1 - Repeat 2 times
Seq 3 - Break down
Seq 1 - Repeat 3 times

Do you guys merge and create a single sequence out of these in Song mode, then write a non-linear midi track over it? What if you want to change one of the beats, sections, etc.? You'd then have to go back, re-write the sequence, re-merge it, and re-record everything?

I guess I'm just trying to understand and get a feel for best way to keep the same creative flow you get when making actual loops, and if there are tips/tricks on piecing a complete, layered track together flexble enough to easily make edits/changes.

I think part of my question is also wondering if I should upgrade to the MPC4k, as it seems to have better facilities for doing this type of thing...?

Unity and Variety.
No Magic Formula that I know.
Get creative and put time into your craft cuz thats the only way you get a hot track that doesn't sound like someone made it in five minuts.
You wont just get it all at once, it takes time.

If you can't do it on a 60, the 4k is no help.

Make you sequences, chain them in song mode, render it as a sequence.

Play your stuff over the top. If you want to make a change, you still have the source sequences, change what you want in the sequences you want, then open the song and render it as a sequence again with a different name, on a different sequencer number, then copy the sequencer tracks you added to the old song to the new sequence. If you want you can erase the old song sequence.

The 60 rules man, don't sleep. Get to know it. Oh, and get the upgrade if you don't have it. It's necessary!!!

Oh bought the 4k. Dont worry keep yo shit and rock that, dont waste money on shit that you will most likely have to waste time learning. Trust Me you got the stuff to make some banging ass tracks right now. Dont get caught up in gear lust cuz I think everyone has been there at one point. work on your skills. read as much shit as you can, books, forums whateva. This Binger0 playa is always postin mad links. I wish I had time to read them all. What im saying is get exited about learning new ish cuz if your not then you will get board.

tanaka_san wrote:
Do you guys merge and create a single sequence out of these in Song mode, then write a non-linear midi track over it? What if you want to change one of the beats, sections, etc.? You'd then have to go back, re-write the sequence, re-merge it, and re-record everything?

dog your def going in the right direction, YOU DONT NEED A 4K....

when your in song mode and you finish your basic structure, bounce thae whole thing to a new sequence its soft key 4 i think....copy the sequence a couple times, go through the whole song, and mute and unmute elements with the erase key, you can also add rolls and kick variations this way...keep doing what your doing.

edit: oh shit, i just wrote the same thing elmac did.

jonloc wrote:Oh bought the 4k. Dont worry keep yo **** and rock that, dont waste money on **** that you will most likely have to waste time learning. Trust Me you got the stuff to make some banging **** tracks right now. Dont get caught up in gear lust cuz I think everyone has been there at one point. work on your skills. read as much **** as you can, books, forums whateva. This Binger0 playa is always postin mad links. I wish I had time to read them all. What im saying is get exited about learning new ish cuz if your not then you will get board.

Check my new site. New links DAILY.
www.ruggedbeats.com

great minds dove, great minds...

I build my shit in bars rather than Seqs

I'd start 2 bars at a time and build up to 16 for the verse

than another 8 for the hook in a seperate seq

then I go back over and rebuilt the 2nd verse (similar to 1st)

Do then intro and outro in seperate seqs

If I want to pull something outta the verse like a switchup I did, I'd copy it out and give it its own seq

Then I generally do what doveski said for completeing my song

But generally you can see I think in terms of bars, it helps speed up the process and give better results as I make sure every 2 bars are on point, or 4 depending on the melody(still slice it to 2)

Cool...thanks for the tips guys. BTW it's not like I have gear lust or anything; I just thought the 4k, since it has a larger screen and (if I recall correctly) shows the sequences visually in rows (ala Cubase) as opposed to numerically like the ol' school 60/3k, might make the process easier and faster to locate/edit different parts of the song more directly.

That was all...I def still love the 60, I was just trying to get some ideas on how people sequence their complete tracks with it, which you guys did.

DOVESKI wrote:

tanaka_san wrote:
Do you guys merge and create a single sequence out of these in Song mode, then write a non-linear midi track over it? What if you want to change one of the beats, sections, etc.? You'd then have to go back, re-write the sequence, re-merge it, and re-record everything?

dog your def going in the right direction, YOU DONT NEED A 4K....

when your in song mode and you finish your basic structure, bounce thae whole thing to a new sequence its soft key 4 i think....copy the sequence a couple times, go through the whole song, and mute and unmute elements with the erase key, you can also add rolls and kick variations this way...keep doing what your doing.

edit: oh ****, i just wrote the same thing elmac did.

Yo I never new the 2kxl could do this. Make a whole seq. outta song mode. Thats hot as hell. Good lookin. This is the second thing I learned today that is going to change my production tech. drastically. Thanks

ah binger you should no about this!! rudiemntary stuff....im dissapointed

greg

I'm with you bing...I didn't know this either. This is gonna save me some time in the future...

actually this thread is like a year old. doomdada i think has a crush on me.

for the original post. I think sometimes it also depends on the song. i mean, if you sample or not, your main "motif" or "sample" can carry you the whole way with no change ups, except just drop ins and outs of bass, drums, hihats, sample, etc. Or depending on how you built your loops, you might be able to take out a stab here, or something there, that even though its a simple drop out, makes the track feel completely differant.

I mean, i guess my advice is, feel out the loop, then sort of examine it and decide what type of mood it gives you, and how you want to maintain that mood, or carry out your "vison" of the loop. Sometimes it has nothing to do with "chorus HERE" or "bridge HERE" or "VERSE MUST BE 16 bars long" or whatever. I mean, there is a format, but there isnt. You cant cookie cut out your tracks, cause thats boring. However, you can loosely follow the shape of a basic format, and make your own creation.

the best thing to do is decide or interpet what the loop wants to portray as a song "as a whole" then construct it to do just that. Im not gonna say "be creative" cause that means shit. Of course you gotta follow some convetions of song format: 16 bar verse, 8-give or take chorus'........then some people will say you need bridges or transitions etc. Well i only really follow the 16 bars. Everything else i go with the mood of the track.

For example. I made this one track where i used a classical sounding piano. When i first made it, it was slow like 75 bpm. I made itlike that because i was going with what i was feeling with my samples, and how i built my drums. Anyways, later on taht day i was like "wait, this shit it too slow" so i changed it, re did the drums, etc. Then I let the beat sit for a few days. Long story short, i was like "im an idiot, my first version was the best" now thats the version i kept, I dont get complaints on it being too slow. Well, i think it sounds good because It best portrayed the mood and characteristic of its sound, at the slow bpm. I could have said "most hiphop songs are around 90 bpm" and gave up, or changed because of that "rule of thumb" but, if i would have, my beat would not be as creative and original sounding and unique to an average hiphop song. Yes you can still rap to it.

Anyways, you gotta learn when to break the rules or conventions, but you also gotta loosely build on that as well because thats what people are use to. If you just apply a "what does this track want to say" attitude with formatting your songs, i think youll be better off and shit wont sound cookie cut or like you just pieced together two loops.

there are also some manuvering of sounds that can make it appear like its not just repeating........like notice in dr.dres tracks he drops in every once in a while sound effects or a new instrument, that is sort of a countermelody, but doesnt neccesarily repeat the whole track.

Also let change ups happen naturally. That is, let you loop ride and where you feel the need for it to change like your internal clock feeling of when it should change, change it there. Sometimes people are anticipating a change and subconsciously desire it in certain spots, feel out those spots, it all depends on the loop. ANd if you add a slight drop in or out there, it will satisfy that feeling and you can go on repeating. Its a balance of repetiton and pattern, with subconcious things that make it seem every changing.

and dont always feel the need to add change ups. Some of my loops im like "**** that, i love this loop its not changing" i mean, sometimes you get loops like that.........liek they are so interesting and satisfying you dont need changeups. And when you add MCs to the mix, they can make a loop seem like a symphony changing up and down, etc. Vocalists bring loops to life. Its annoying to listen to a 1 bar loop, but with a good MC, they can make you forget that its 1 bar.

You gotta have a look at the whole picture of the track, that includes the mood of it, what an MC might sound like, how does the loop feel, how does it satisfy you, is there anticipation of change, is there something good-but annoying if played too long, how did you chop your sample, what do drop outs feel like, how many things are oging on in the track, etc.

personally, i like to create self sufficient loops...........the art of the loop. loops so hot you dont want no **** change ups!