12-bit electronics / rebirth ...

Is there anyone here that can possibly answer this question? Is it possible to create a new sampler, with today's time / multisampling / hard-drive capabilities, that would use 40/32khz, 12bit width electronics similar to the S900/950 MPC60/60II/3000 SP12/1200 sound engines? Any electronic/electrical engineers here that can maybe give a hope for something like this? Thanks in advance!!

i dont beleive todays components can acheive the sounds of these machines you listed... but i think similar "sound engines" are of course possible since this technology is 20 years old or so already...

for some of these machines, the essential parts are outdated/obsolete and/or fully depleted... basicly, the parts needed to build these things arent available...

unless you took them out of exisiting machines...

I'd love a DIY Sampler kit.

Maybe. Yet, if they can build a replica Lamborgini Countach that uses a 375hp GM motor, someone should be able to build a newer machine with the older "sound". If Emu can put out a Anniversay Edition of its Sp12 or Sp1200, why not for a 60 or 3000? Since these machines are 20 yrs and older, there should be some kind of way to "re"-engineer them from the ground up. That is what X-base did to get its X-909. Hech I even have some schematics around of a TR-808 and a TR-606. All it takes is someone with the desire to do so. Just take a look at the Forat edition of the Linn 9000.

Another fact, time just might be starting to catch up with these machines. Since we know that the many computer languages have 16bit sound technology written in them from the compiler to the linkers, hardware has to be the only way. Since time has gotten better with the technology, it should be easier to "do it again". Many years ago, a super computer took up much of the space of one of the buildings at Univ. of Penn, now they sit on a desk. They once used tubes, now transistors, etc. Bad comparison, but the MPC has now become truly portable. Has the automobile engine changed much since its "humble" beginnings? They still use gas, hybrids to, they still have cylinders, etc. Since the 60/3000 technology has been proven to stay,I think it is now the time to give it a rebirth that is further than what the version 3 hardware / software is doing.

Using the same 40khz / 12bit path technology as its base, it is time to expand, not change or evolve, upon it capabilities to what is now the current "standards". My S-2000 has more than 5 minutes sample time @ 44.1khz. Why can't the MPC 60/3000's? Yes I know the MPC format is much more efficient that the S technology. However, it give me a base for my observations / inquiries. Think about it. Granted we now can pimp our MPCs. Yet, isn't it now time to supercharge the exisiting engine?

i dont think that would be such a good thing. it is the limitations that have made these machines so popular that a producer HAD to make the tracks hot. the 12bit sound was just the icing on the cake that you didn't have to waste time engineering the s!@# out of sounds, trying to make it sound right like most people do today with programs. i mean there are few people that have brought out breakthrough albums with only an mpc4000 ! i mean even if that were to happen ( the closest machine to this is the machine drum from elektron) think about the amount of huge bullsh@#$ 12bit tracks that would be produced and in the hands of every unexperienced wannabe. i can see it now! " now you too can make your bullsh#@$ bump with 3 minutes of sample time so you can't even decide how to chop the song cos you sampled the whole thing an forgot where to do it in the first place!"

panda wrote:i can see it now! " now you too can make your bullsh#@$ bump with 3 minutes of sample time so you can't even decide how to chop the song cos you sampled the whole thing an forgot where to do it in the first place!"

Ha, that'd be some funny s***. Does that 12 bit conversion come before or after it is stored in memory? I remember reading something about how the 60 takes sounds at 16 bit and then crushes it down to 12. Idk,I could be wrong but I might have an idea if certain things are true.

the elektron machine drum uw, features 12 bit sampling.

I found out from Forat that much of the converters, the electronics and the AD to DA convertors would have to be made from the ground up - again. In other words, it would take lots of convincing an electronics company to engineer and produce better version of these components needed to make a MPC with 12 bit sound using today's current feature specs. I wish I had a couple of hundred thousand dollars to sell the idea to these companies. If they could see the potential to make much money from such machines today... Damn, I need to take some electrical / electronic engineering classes!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet, does anyone have the scematics? I'll trade you for scematics of the TR 808 I have.


Mad Cherokee

well if they remake the 3000 and 60, then they wouldn't be "Classics"

DJBlueDrink wrote: I remember reading something about how the 60 takes sounds at 16 bit and then crushes it down to 12.

this is true.. i read that in the 60 manual not too long ago. something to the effect that the 60 records 16bit then truncates it to 12..

I work making printed circuit boards at the moment. I deal with the customers pcb CAD/CAM files and electronic design automation/manufaturing, and plot and maintain the film used for imaging the copper clad board before etching. I am contemplating a career as electrical engineer and am anxious to get started on my own homebrew sampler from scratch.

I have thrown around the idea of remaking or reinventing a 60 or something similar. It would be a tremendous task.

thing is, if they made something like this, the price of the 60/sp1200 would likely fall and all the people wanting a 12 bit sampler would get the old ones no? or the price of the new ones would have to be put on sale to rival current 1200/60 prices and they wouldn't make money on it

I might have some of this shit mixed up but it's simple economics

^^^ agree..

but, also... if they start making 3Ks and 60s... they would price em high..

on ebay the LE 3000 can go high as $3000, and if they make 3000 they are gonna be brand new.... so people will jump on the new ones, and the prices for the old ones the real classic MPs will go down...

and for the money u will spend to buy a NEW 60 or 3000 u can probly get a 2500.. or a Blue 2000 CL with card reader and extras.

i have no idea of the demand on the market, a significant reason why akai doesnt feel or have the need to make a stright 12 bit sampler, the dudes at akai probably belive that all people want is better sound quality 24/96 more than anything....

i have no idea, all we can do is wish...

or buy the actual machine.. hahah