figuring out sysex implementation of the mpc4000

I am going to be trying to figure out the sys ex implementation for the mpc over the next week.
So this thread will be dedicated to that.
as suggested by renegadebliss
this is how far I got on thursday night.

Okay so
F0 47 5f 0 is the first part of the sys ex message to the akai where 0 is the device id is that correct?
then
Table 16 says its hex12
So becomes
F0 47 5f 0 12
now filter cutoff is 21
so
F0 47 5f 0 12 21 now I am lost!
I don;t understand data 1 or data2???
errrr
back to the drawing board!

Gonna see if I can push this forward and get some stuff working.
geoff

You need to read the "Z4/Z8/MPC4000 SysEx Implementation v1.50" PDF very carefully.

That is the only information that there is! There is no extra secret information available apart from that - nobody on here knows anything more than what is printed in that document.

got it infront of me!
and using it! although this is my first time with sysex so its a little confusing for me at the moment but I am getting there.
I hope...
geoff

I remember you expressing your frustration at the sys ex implementation, did you get any of it to work?

I got some of it to work,
after I (and others) tried out what was printed in the v1.0 sysEx document,
found that big chunks of it didn't work,
and reported it to Akai, and they fixed it and issued the 1.50 document.

With the 1.50 spec, I still find a couple of commands on each page that don't appear to work.
I have reported these to Akai, and they've done f*ck all about it.

Is it possible to adjust filter cuttoff resonance and amplifier envelope parameters, i.e. do these all work??

Also would you mind writing out the correct sys ex string that I would enter for one parameter like filter cutoff so that I have one string that works to work back from for other parameters. i.e. if I can see one I can then get them all from that.

cheers
g

well I could,
but not off the top of my head -
I'd have to go and read the PDF to check what the correct string was -
so why can't you? I don't understand the problem.

I would have thought it was obvious I don't have a freaking clue what I am doing!.
And no sys ex is not obvious when you are doing it for the first time!
the bit that I am struggling with is how to enter a parameter range. i.e 0-100 or 0to 127 in sys ex.
still confused about this
Like I said if I could see one working string then all this would become obvious.
g

No it wouldn't be obvious if you just saw one string,
because there are several different types of strings,
using several different data types - they are not all the same.

But they are all documented in the PDF.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I can't explain to unless you are clearer about what it is you don't understand.

Go to the PDF,
copy out the bit you are trying to do,
paste it on here and point out the bit that doesn't make sense to you.

If I go to the PDF, I will just copy out there what it says!
I won't say anything different to what's there in the PDF.
But you've already said you don't understand the PDF!
So until you're more specific, I can't help you.

cool thankyou for the offer, I have got this far and basically got stuck,
This is where I got stuck.

"Okay so
F0 47 5f 0 is the first part of the sys ex message to the akai where 0 is the device id is that correct? i am assuming that the device id default is 0
then
Table 16 says at the top control items for this section is hex12
So becomes
F0 47 5f 0 12
Within that table is the parameter set filter cutoof frequency.
Column one is <item> and the value given is 21
now filter cutoff is 21
so
F0 47 5f 0 12 21

now column 2 is data 1 which says in it byte (0-3)
column 3 is data 2 which says byte(0-100)

I do not understnad what I am supposed to do with data1 or data2 ranges in terms of my sysex string.
And also I am not sure if there is something specific I should finish wish, I want to avoid using the checksum stuff as I don't think thats necesary although I am obviously only a beginner.
So I got as far as F0 47 5f 0 12 21 then couldn't figure out columd dat1 and data2 or the end command.
g

OK some preliminary points:

- if a byte is zero, type it as "00", not just "0", it's less confusing
(each SysEx byte is written as a pair of hexadecimal digits)

- you say "i am assuming that the device id default is 0".
Why assume when you can RTFM? In the section "User Selectable Device ID", (page 3), it says "The default Device ID is zero".
What's difficult to understand about that? I found that in 10 seconds by doing CTRL+F on the PDF and searching for not "knickers" or "candyfloss", but, surprisingly, "Device ID".

- The format of the data bytes is --- WOW!--- explained in the PDF in the section fiendishly entitled "Format of Message Data) (p.9), where you will find Table 5 "SysEx Data Formats".
Try reading this and you will perhaps understand the required formats for data bytes in the subsequent tables.

- you say "i am assuming that the device id default is 0".
Why assume when you can RTFM? In the section "User Selectable Device ID", (page 3), it says "The default Device ID is zero".
What's difficult to understand about that? I found that in 10 seconds by doing CTRL+F on the PDF and searching for not "knickers" or "candyfloss", but, surprisingly, "Device ID".

Did that just double checking.

you said
"the section fiendishly entitled "Format of Message Data) (p.9)"

read it still not sure how to enter data 1 and data 2 now I understand you may think this is easy things are once you have done them successfully but I haven't yet and it is confusing for me. So yes I have read p9 but I am still unsure how to write a complete string containing a variable parameter.
hence my simple question
could you write out an example i.e. the filter cutoff one so I can see it and work back, its diffucult when i have no single correct string in the section i want. Thats all I am asking.
If you find it so easy whats the big deal?
I am not trying to get you to write every parameter out for me just ONE.
Thats my main question
geoff

now filter cutoff is 21
so corrected this much is correct ?? for filter cutoff p25 table 16

F0 47 5f 00 12 21 <data1> <data2> F7


I am just confused about how to add data 1 and data2.

g

Harrumph!

Look, if you READ table 16, you will see explained what <data1> is: it says
"Set Filter <Data1> = Filter Block (0 = normal, 1= Triple1, 2=triple 2, 3=triple3"

ie, if you're not using the triple filter, you just leave it as "00"
If you are using the triple filter, then you set it to either 01, 02, or 03, to tell the MPC4000 which of the 3 filters you are change the cut-off of.

<data2> is just the cut-off frequency, from 0-100 (decimal), same as you see it on the MPC400 screen.

the 'format' for each one is just a hexadecimal BYTE, which is the first type listed in Table 6, which explains that the byte is just an ordinary numerical value, corresponding from 0 to 127, decimal.

XXXX!

Thanks for your suport on this feline but I am not getting this to work at all.

So the complete string as i only want it for single filter not triple would be.
I edit a slider on my keyboard to transmit
F0 47 5f 00 12 21 00 <data2> F7

so I should I leave <data2> blank as this is the 0-127 value the slider will send if i configure it like this

F0 47 5F 00 12 21 00 F7
i.e. does the slider become data 2 automatically.

I have tried the above and it seems to do nothing.
XXXX!
I have tried adding hex values for for 0 - 100 but nothing I do works.

Do you have any working strings from table 16 for control of the filter or envelope that I could try?

i.e enter this ( ...............) this will control the attack time of the amp envelope.
I can't get anything to work.
I am completely confused, I have a volume slider sending cc this works with the mpc but the sysex I have tried seems to do nothing, but then I am totally guessing each step, this is making it hard for me to work out which step I am getting wrong.

g