Off The Rader vs. Commercial production tools?

Fist off, I wanted to say that this is a great site with
a lot of good info and some cool cats. After years of putting it off, I've
decided to go ahead and cop an MPC 2kXL. No big
plans, just as a hobby I want to make beats and
try to produce rather than consume. I've listened to
hip hop for years, but never realized that keyborads (synths)
played such a major role. I always thought that when I heard
a kick or snare on a record it was sampled from another
record (damn, I feel old). I planed on just hooking up my 12s
to the MPC, sampling my sounds and going from there. Anyway, the
more and more I research, I notice the same topic popping
up. It basically falls into the "what is better: motif/triton/etc..
category which is usually followed by the oligatory "so and so producer
uses so and so keyboard" with so and so producer being more
commercial than say a grouch or fat jack or pbw type.
Are these synths more in tune for commercial (sp?) type production methods?
What are the tools of the trade for the off the rader stuff?

Disclaimer: not trying to troll with this question, just want to get some
varoius types of feed back for different production scenarios.

Anyway, big up mpc-tutor and to everyone that posts here (I've damn near read
every post), and this was my first.



Paz.

well, for starters..... I don't consider myself some big hip hop expert, or even a long time fan, im much newer than that. But I will say that my favorite hip hop isnt made with keyboards at all, it actually is made with samples only. Really, drums are usually secondary to a synth, the actual synthesized sounds are usually much more important. That is besides the point though, on to your question....

Look at it this way. I own an MPC2000xl, and I own a Korg MS2000 Synth. You can hear this synth on Snoops last full length, Dre's production, Outkast's Stankonia, and many other mainstream hip hop records. At the same time, you can hear it in countless television commercials (the new Monster.com commercials come to mind, it uses a preset sound called 'deepbell') I guess the point is that it just depends on how you use it, personally - I don't think one synth is going to be more or less 'commercial' than the other, but I do think its kind of cheap to use PRESET sounds (which all of the above mentioned hip hop records do) As much as I may like those records, I can always tell when an ms2000 is used when they use the presets. Catch me? Its not the tools as much as it is the effort put into the outcome, ie whatever synth you use, don't use the out-of-the-package presets!!

-DJA

Never really been into synths period unless I'm taking my songs into a studio for fine tuning/mastering and want to add a certain flavour to the mix.
Synths are kinda like a fashion statement in the sense that one day they are the flavour of the month and then the next their dead and this come and goes in cycles. One element that never out of date is sampling.
With the right equipment and enough knowledge and self belief you should be able to take a sound and say for instance break it down into parts and have like a bass and top end sample to go create with.
Not one for dissin or but I've always preferred producers that scatter samples throughout their track to create a musical landscape. Its easy enough to play a bassline or a hook from a synth without any formal music teaching but its not as easy to do the hard way, with samples.
It also gives it that raw feel that is the very essence of Hip Hop.
Hip Hop is not a synth based music genre, UK eighties pop like Duran Duran and Gary Numan was.
But remember this is about choice. If you feel you need a synth then get one. Its about what you want to do.

while i do agree with the fact that most of hiphops history is based in sample based music, on the other side of the coin, good hiphop is good hiphop. regardless of whether or not that tune or bit of music came from a synth or a sample. it takes a lot of damn talent to chop up a sample and place it in the perfect spots to create a mood, but it also takes a lot of damn talent to play "real" instruments on a track (i know this particularly well since i cant play shitsworth of instruments).

i think both methods have their place in hiphop. at the end of the day what matters most is that your head nods when the beat drops.

[oh yeah, to answer the original post, ive noticed (from reading, other boards and people into it) lots of cats using asr-10s, asr-x pros, and mpc's for home based studios. mix magazine had an article on jurassic 5 this month.. nu-mark has an mpc2000xl, triton keyboard, avalon preamp, and a neumann mic.. and majority of j5's work is done on that. say word.]

MARQ ONE-

Im old too.

Out of choice i keep my stuff sampled bass (more fun for me/sounds better to me), i just use synths to add sprinkles here and there, and having a mo'phatt gives me tons of drum sounds that i can turn out with the MS2000 & MPCs filters when i dont have time to look for that perfect clap or whatever....

Wassup to all, I haven't posted in a while, but when I see posts like this, I get the urge to reply. As far as the gear goes, I wouldn't spend a red cent on anything that costs too much. If your getting paid for your beats, then the sky is the limit. J5 may have some simple gear, but avalon amps are not cheap, and even a triton is expensive when you consider how much it all costs. J5's (simple) setup is approx 10 grand when you add it all up, but I guess that is still cheap compared to others. I have friends that haven't made a penny from their work, and easily have 30-50 g's worth of gear. You'd be surprised what your MPC can do with just a turntable hooked up to it, and it doesn't have to be a technics 1200 either! There are a few other pieces I would get to go with an MPC. Another sampler makes things much better because you can now re-sample. Even making drums dirty is simple with ANY sampler. I wouldn't buy an SP-1200 just for the sound. You can speed the sample up on the MPC, and sample it on the other sampler, and when you de-tune it, it will sound dirtier than the original. It may not have the SP-1200 sound, but the people that buy music don't know it either. If your pockets are light, then I would invest in some soft synths for your computer. There are programs out there that have more sounds than just about any workstation ever made. That old casio keyboard you have under that pile of clothes.. yea, you know what I'm talking about, hook up the midi ports to your computer, and with the soft synths, it will sound better than any triton ever created. Personally, I don't use any of that stuff, my MPC/ASR-X, and turntable do me wonders. I bought a proteus 2000 ( and barely ever use it anymore ) EMU-Emax 1 (never use that) countless drum machines, and my point is that I wasted my money. In the beginning, you always think you need something more, but truthfully, you may just need to work the gear a lil harder. Don't worry about using professional tools in your studio.. chances are, any track that you make will be re-recorded or mastered in a pro studio anyways. Save your cash and let someone else buy that stuff.. and when they re-sell it, buy it for a much cheaper price!

roxstar aka .' : gritz : '.

oh no doubt. keeping it simple is always the route to go.

but marq one's question was.. what were others using out there. the j5 example is just that, an example of what someone is using out there, that isnt necessarily mainstream, but above ground as well. j5 is selling records worldwide though, and they sell out everywhere, but what are they using? a couple of drum machines, a synth, and a preamp. granted they throw everything onto heavy studio equipment when it comes to actually recording it, but making the music is kept simple. im sure if they wanted to, they could blow their money on more expensive equipment, or better yet blow it all off on studio time..

For me, hip hop sounds tightest when it's sample based.

most get synths like you would get a sample cd's. there is usually very basic synth programming on hip hop tracks. The trick is using a very ordinary sound in an amazing way.

All you need is what you have in front of you. you can add softsynths or a synth if you like, but mess with what you have and you'll find out more about how you want to work, and what you may want to get.

Reason. USe it as a pile of sound modules and sequence on the mpc. Record and sync it to a MTR or MTR program. I have a p3 700 and reason and cool edit run side by side with no problems. The neptunes use reason to give thier sounds that funky resonance feel.