Beat matching with 2500 (not time stretching or PP'ing)

yo unless i missed something nobody was talking down to you
i'm just saying now i know why people used to use large sample chunks on the old mpcs - the software made it easier to match bpms

in the contemporary mpc setting, this is harder to do - the software doesn't lead you to think of your samples via bpm, in part due to the lack of that conversion software you described in your initial question (which was, as you said, a unique and good question.)

since this is harder to do in newer mpcs, it's "clumsy" by comparison to how you describe it being in your older model mpc. i'm not looking down at anyone's tried and true pattern of work (in this particular case, anyway!!)

But I would never tell someone else that their methodology was “clunky”... or even cheating.

one more time, just so you and me are good - i wasn't saying YOU were clunky. i was saying "no wonder so many people want to do it this way." it certainly sounds easier to do on the 2000. unfortunately, it's less gracefully done in the current code of the 2500.

that being said, i 2nd the suggestion of the jj os - you may very well see it in further versions! i'd also be interested in using it.

peace man

dume41 wrote:

Adversary Thank you so much!! I did mad searches on the 2500 version of JJ OS but did not get any answer about tempo matching or beat matching. This piece of knowledge is a nugget.

Thanks for the Jewel

dume41
Several Active Minds
myspace.com/severalactiveminds

It was one of the things I hated from day one with my 2500 on the Akai OS.
I could do it with the 4k and I could do it with the XL, made no sense why Akai killed it.
When the JJ OS came for the 2500 whole Beat Match thing and the MTC stuff were my main reasons for jumping on it.

Funny how so many of the things JJ added to the 2500 were things that Akai dropped that previous units did.
Akai really needs to step up the OS since the 2500 is the flagship MPC.

djray182 wrote:ok i had a mpc1k with jj os and you could do this in the trim page. you had to know the original tempo though, then you could pick what ever new tempo you wanted. i dont have the jj on my 2500 because i like my auto chop feature to work properly but i assume the 2500 jjos has it aswell .

hope i could help.

i'm pretty sure that is time stretch which is not what he's looking for.

let me try to explain a little better here since no one seems to understand...

take this image into account:


in this page, you can see the sample's name is "loop_1" and it's tempo is 120 when the amount of beats are set to 4. the mpc calculates this tempo by using a function including the length of the sample and the amount of beats you inputted. if you changed the amount of beats to 2, the sample tempo would change to "60", and if you changed the amount of beats to 8, the sample tempo would change to "240". are you with me so far?

ok, with tune set to 0, the "new tempo" field would match the "sample tempo" field as it does in the image, this is because the "sample tempo" field is simply the tempo of the sample at tune 0.

if you tuned it up, the sample would play quicker at a higher pitch, and since it was quicker the "new tempo" field would immediately show what that quicker bpm was. if you tuned it down, the "new tempo" field would show a slower bpm since when you tune the sample down it plays the sample slower at a lower pitch.

so, you're not time-stretching which changes the tempo of the sample while keeping the sample at the same pitch. you're not pitch-shifting the sample which changes the sample pitch while keeping the tempo. you're tuning the sample which changes both the pitch and the tempo of the sample but in real time it's displaying how your tuning affects the tempo.

so what's missing from the sample window on the 2500 is the display of the calculated sample tempo as well as the display of the calculated sample tempo after it has been tuned.

it's just a little equation, but so useful
barely a feature, more of just a "readout"

BUT of course i could be a cornball stickler and start yelling about "USE YOR EERS NOT YOR EYES" but that would, as usual, be ridiculous when it's obvious that a numerical answer exists to speed up the process

i don't think autochop was a "replacement" but at the same time i don't think it's a necessary function. this, i would very happily grab up. it'd complement timestretch and pitch shift very well in the jj os.

dume41 wrote:I’ve been making beats for about 15 years. I’m embarrassed to say this but I can not find a simple function on the MPC2500 which exists everywhere else.

On the 2000xl, If you want to match some phrases up (WITHOUT time stretching), you simply go to the parameters page of your sample after setting it to loop perfectly. On that page there is a calculated BPM for the phrase. You can turn the tune up or down and the BPM is recalculated instantly. In this way you can adjust the sample to perfectly match the tempo of your sequence. This takes all of 3 seconds to do. I have poured overt the 2500 manual. Although I’ve never posted here, I’ve read thousands of posts on the forum. Is this function just gone?
Before I start getting the standard answers, there are some ‘work arounds’ that are not the same:


dume41 the scientist
Several Active Minds
myspace.com/severalactiveminds

Ok, lets take it from a different direction.
In the scenario named above you are changing the pitch to match the tempo while also doing some ear tuning to match the pitch.
Ok, if you use the JJ OS all you have to do is go to the Time Compression screen tell it to manually detect the tempo by letting you put the number of beats in.
Then just match the new tempo to your desired tempo to get the proper speed
After that you can do your pitch shift to match the tuning to match the pitch.
Not the direct function it was on the XL or 4k but at least with JJ you get a manual Detect Tempo that works, unlike the Auto Detect Tempo which doesn't work on Akai or JJ.
It would be nice if like the 4k you could simply spin the tempo to a pitch or spin the pitch to a tempo.
Just seems Akai got really confused with what to keep and what to throw away when teh created the 1k/2500 family.

i think this is what your looking for!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--GzodmsZtI

"Ok, lets take it from a different direction. "

I think he knows all about the other options, but can't find the one he was used to. I think it's more easly understood if a vocal loops was being used,
because pitch correction is so important. It seem akai have removed this feature from an instant pop-up in favour of time/pitch correction, and i understand why. But just because its the correct way may not be the way we like to do things or want them to sound. So just to clarify does the jjos allow you to just key in a bpm you want like the 2kxl did or is a work around, i don't own any machine yet so am keen to know. I think the youtoob link is what he knows he doesn't want, i know it's not for me, well in beats anyway.

djray182 wrote:i think this is what your looking for!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--GzodmsZtI

Not even close.
As Mike has tried to make people understand it's about a feature that was on the XL and 4k that Akai dropped.
If you have never used it then you might not understand what's missing and what it really allows you to do in realtime from one screen.
Mike showed the XL screen and below is the 4k screen.
They allowed you to work your tempo and pitch as one function.
The reason JJ OS is a better fit to try and do this is because it at least gives you back the ability to enter in the number of beats manually while Akai doesn't offer that at all.
Akai just gives you that non-funtional Auto Tempo Detect.

fur*q wrote:"Ok, lets take it from a different direction. "

I think he knows all about the other options, but can't find the one he was used to. I think it's more easly understood if a vocal loops was being used,
because pitch correction is so important. It seem akai have removed this feature from an instant pop-up in favour of time/pitch correction, and i understand why. But just because its the correct way may not be the way we like to do things or want them to sound. So just to clarify does the jjos allow you to just key in a bpm you want like the 2kxl did or is a work around, i don't own any machine yet so am keen to know. I think the youtoob link is what he knows he doesn't want, i know it's not for me, well in beats anyway.

With the Akai OS there isn't anything really to call a workaround because it doesn't allow you to enter the number of beats on any screen, so you lose that in every regard.
JJ at leat put the number of beats back.
Akai didn't remove it to add something they just removed it.
What they actually did was hardwire certain parameters and the system now makes assumptions on what it sees.
All related to the Patched Phrase function way of detecting peaks and how the Auto Detect Tempo wants to measure 1 Bar at 4/4 but still doesn't work when you highlight that amount.
Since JJ give you the manual beat back it allows you to do that then put that tempo in the Sample Screen but the tempo only shows up if it's a Patched Phrase.



Just way too many things got screwed up with the 1k/2500 that didn't have to be.

So am i correct in thinking if i want to retune loops on the fly (which i do)
i would need to be looking at the 2k or 4k?

If so, that really is a screw up then. Isnt tuning one of the most
fundimental
aspects of dealing with samples?

fur*q wrote:So am i correct in thinking if i want to retune loops on the fly (which i do)
i would need to be looking at the 2k or 4k?

If so, that really is a screw up then. Isnt tuning one of the most
fundimental
aspects of dealing with samples?

No what we are referring to is TUNING to BPM or adjusting BPM to PITCH.

....no you can still tune
again it just doesn't give a changing BPM readout as you're spinning the wheel

Antonym wrote:....no you can still tune
again it just doesn't give a changing BPM readout as you're spinning the wheel

exactly. with the 2000xl, when you tuned a sample, it would show you how the bpm was affected by that tuning. that's all we're talking about here.

we're not talking about patched phrase.

we're not talking about time stretching.

we're not talking about pitch shifting.

Antonym wrote:....no you can still tune
again it just doesn't give a changing BPM readout as you're spinning the wheel

It worked both ways.
If you would spin the BPM it would change the Pitch value.
If you would spin the Pitch it would change the BPM value.

You should compare the two with the same loop. do one using the method in the video i posted above and then do it on the 2000. it cant sound that different its basicly the same thing just written different in the software.