Hey, loop this

I just really learned the usefulness of playing with the Time Signature settings and I’ve now run up against a tricky prob...

Background:

[1] I sampled an a couple of short break downs from an LP, isolated the kicks and snares, adjusted the chops as necessary and put ‘em into a program.

[2] I then had plans to use the chops to create a 4 bar sequence from four 1 bar sequences—each individual bar having its own sequence. (I’d string the four 1 bar sequences together in Song Mode to create the 4 bar sequence.)

[3] My set up was: Tempo = 118.8, T.sig = 12/16, Timing = 1/32(3)

[4] I then created the first three bars according to the above settings. When I do this sort of thing, I know my programming’s solid if I turn LOOP: ON and the sequence loops perfectly, without a gap or without looping back too early.

Alright, that’s where I was before I hit this problem:

[5] For creating the last bar, I finished programming but when I turned LOOP: ON to check how things sounded there was a tiny little gap that caused the sequence to loop with a delay.

No problem, I thought, I’ll just drop the T.sig value to 11/16. But that didn’t work either because now my sequence was looping back too early. I then tried to mess around with the chops in STEP EDIT but still no dice—regardless of whether I was doing things in 11/16 or 12/16 I still couldn’t get sequence to loop right.

So with all that said, I gotta’ ask if anyone out there knows how to fix this problem? Using an 11.5/16 time signature would almost certainly fix the problem and create a perfectly looping sequence but since I know that isn’t possible (right?), does anyone know of any tricks or settings that could achieve the same effect and help me get this sequence looping right?

Peace…

keep up the hood work

settle down there on the time sigs bro! use 4/4 or 8/8. Dont get crazy. those are some odd ass time signitures bro. Get the tempo down and youll be cool. Read bingers must read thread and youl be fine. dont touch the time sigs unless you know what your doing.

yo messin with the time sig does complex timing patterns jon. Polyrhtyms. Adavanded drumming techniques. I dont know much bout em.

jontakiff dropped the knowledge here
http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php ... c&start=75

hy armando!

you say 11.5/16 would be allright! dunno which mpc your usin and what time sig other mpcs allow but i know that the 4k allows to set in per/32 and thus 23/32 whould be about the same and the easiest way!

regardless of the mpc model you can set timing correction to off! on the 4k thus 1/4 has 960 ppq (steps)! i think the 2 xl has 96 - i ain't sure about the resolution of other mpcs though!

12/16 is (about) the same as 3/4 - btw: are you attempting a viennese waltz 2004? you say you need to move your note from 12/16 to 11.5/16 which is half of 1/16 note and thus 1/32! on the 4k it would therefore be 120 steps (an eight of 960) and on the 2xl 12! if you have another mpc model that has another time grid resolution refer to an eitht of the ppq of it!

try it and let me know how it turned out! it got me interested now!

good luck and bangin nearly 3/4 beaz

alto

Thanks for all the feedback. Don’t let those time signatures fool you—there’s nothing advanced about my drum programming. I bought the MPC-2000XL for one reason: I though taking a drum break, chopping it up and creating something new was the sh*t. Yeah, creating full songs was cool but the idea of chopping really intrigued me.

For about a year I had been sampling records, taking very precise drum chops and creating new patterns, all without paying any attention whatsoever to the time signature setting.

Naturally, I was just really experimenting for the first few months while trying to learn the machine. Soon after I started making really, really simple beats. However, as time passed and I wanted to get more complex, I couldn’t seem to put the ideas I had into an actual beat on the MPC.

The basic problem I had was that I was always creating patterns that never fit neatly into a bar/s. So for example, if I was working with 2 bars in 4/4, sometimes my programming would finish at 02.03.16 leaving a lot of silence before the MPC finished the bar and looped back to the starting point. I kind of solved this problem by just copying and pasting but that became a real chore and created huge sequences (like 250+ bars). So I though, ‘Damn, if there was only a way to shrink the bar’s size…’ You know, cut the second bar down from 02.04.95 to 02.03.16, forcing the MPC to loop when I wanted it to.

THAT’S when I discovered the time sig. setting and I realized how you could alter the length of a bar. Through trial and error I’ve been able to create hip-hop sounding breaks in weird time signatures (like 12/16) but it doesn’t always work perfectly…which is why I posted for help.

The main thing that’s been holding me back from putting beats on soundclick.com is that prior to the whole time sig discovery thing, creating a full beat has been a freakin’ nightmare. Once I put your guys’ advice to work I will hopefully have some stuff to share.

Peace.

yo man. I can take just about any sample and make it fit into a 4/4 time signature bar, and loop it. you have to mess with 3 things. 1. tempo 2. timestretch (or bpm match) 3. pitch of sample. Its even easier when you chop it.

Im not tryin to knock your time sig techniques, but you may be overthinking what you want to accomplish. if you cant master the above 3 and make a loop fit, then using differant time sigs will make things overlly complicated, or actually create more copying and pasting. When working with samples it is easier to turn timing correct to "off" or to 32, not 32 (3), unless your drums where originally created using 32 (3). But thats just my experience.

FIX:
1. Loop using sequencer, This will most likely fix your problem. First loop a sample pharse in trim mode. Once you have a good loop going with no clicks or pops, turn the loop off. Next go into your sequencer and place the sample at 1.1.00. (make sure the program setting is set to "poly" so that you hit the pad once and it plays the sample all the way through). Finally adjust the tempo until the sample loops perfectly. i.e. listen for a dely or clipping, then adjust tempo slower or faster. IF you need more resolution, use double time i.e. double the tempo, and copy the sample twice.


you can go about your beat making 2 ways. 1 Start with drums first, or start with sample first. if you start with a sample first you most likely will need to have a solid loop going-wheter its chopped or not. Starting with the drums first can help you see how you want to flip your sample (i.e. if you want to chop it, loop it, pitch it, or whatever.)

Some other tips:

2.use "tap tempo" to original track sample is from to determine original tempo of the track. When adjusting "bpm match" enter this orginal tempo into the "original tempo" and then choose your "new tempo"

3. Remember bpm match is bpm relative to the length of your sample, it helps to have the original tempo of the track, so that you can adjust the beats, until you see the approximate tempo the track was, then adjust.

Adjust the "beats" to aproximate length of your sample, always use 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32, otherwise it will be difficult to match at 4/4. rule of thumb smaller phrase=less beats. If there are drastic changes in your tempo, or i.e. you attempt to play your new sample at the specified tempo and it does not match, chances are you probably used the wrong beats, or wrong original tempo (even if the mpc told you the original tempo). try again.

4. split sample into several parts, like 2 or 4, and play to beat, youd be suprised but sometimes there is no need for tempo or timestretch or even pitching.

5.pitch the sample. Dont just use 16 levels, actually go into program and adjust the pitch, you get more control and can fintune the increments, instead of jumping (skipping increments) when you use 16 levels.

6. Trim sample, loop sample(even if you want to chop it), then bpm match, then chop. This works so all your chopps work bpm wise.

7. "Mono" in program is a good way to break up a loop. i.e. first get a really good loop phrase, then assign mono to it. Play the first couple notes of the loop 3 times, then on the 4th let the sample play through, repeat.

the only way around fitting a 1 bar loop that is like .93 of 1 bar, is to timestretch, or to adjust the tempo of your sequence. you could adjust the timesignature, however youll end up copying and pasting more. and messing with resolution, that doesnt need to be changed. Plus youll have to adjust your drums and may not get the same groove your looking for.

4/4 or nothin!

yo get recycle and all your problems are solved.

hy armando

forget about my 2nd advice from last night! it was 5 in the mornin here and i somehow thought movin notes would do it ...

well but somehow this must be possible ... i think! does your t.sig have to be 11.5/16 for all 4 bars or do you need 3 12/16 bars and the last one at 11,5/16? this isn't clear to me!

if the first one is the case i would try to set t.sig for bar 1 and 3 at 12/16 and for bar 2 and 4 at 11/16! but i think you would have to reprogram the beat!

if the second is the case i think with halving the tempo (to 59,4) you should somehow come there! (i would try to transform the 3 12/16 to 3 6/8 then, and splitting the last one (11,5/16) into 2 bars - maybe a 5/8 and a 3/16?)

... again i m not sure if one of this works! but you can achieve a lot with changing tempo and splitting a bar into 2 or 3 subbars!

... but still 11,5/16 is a curageous beat!!! ... good luck with it!