Multitrack recording tricks?

Besides the bugs that make it worthless, the MPC500 is great for making beats. But when I'm ready to throw in some standard audio tracks, like vocals, guitar, etc. without using them as triggered samples, it seems to fall short.

You can setup your sequence, set threshold to nothing, then go into record, and hit play at the same time as record and it'll start recording in time with the beat. But then you have to go and assign it to a pad, and it seems to always have the same trim lead-in time, so you have to trim it back down to 0. Then you have to trigger it at the beginning of the recording.

The problem is, you're not guaranteed to have it in perfect timing unless you nailed those two buttons together simultaneously with no gap, and if you want to trim your recording to get rid of the first bar, the trim mode is in time, not beats, so you can't trim it accurately without busting out a calculator to figure out the BPM and what number to trim to, etc.

So I'm wondering how you cope? If you think in terms of software, the MPC is like the old Fruity Loops, and a little multitrack is like old Cool Edit Pro. What I'd like is to figure out how to make the MPC work better for both making beats and recording multitrack audio, and be more like the modern Cubase SX, Tracktion2 type apps.

Is there any hope? If not I have a Zoom H4 I use for the multitrack, and just keep the MPC for beats. It's still portable, but the H4 can't sync to the midi clock, so I may have to get something else.

yep, I think the only option is to get trimming and then sequence the audio as a note on.

I would suggest turning off quantize when you sequence the event since vocals and live guitars do not always start precisely on a beat. you can always move the event forward or backwards after sequencing it.

There is no hope...

Except from the MPC500 being hard to use like this, you are also going to stumble upon the MPC500 polyphony problems.

There is no way to set a high priority to long sampled loops (multitrack like samles) so the long multitrack type sample will be cut when the MPC runs out of voices.

Snerg

PS: The MPC500 is good at other things, I would get a (portable) multitracker that does sync to midi for multitracking

Okay thanks guys, that's what I figured. Shame, because I can think of a few tricks they could've added to the OS to make it a bit more versatile for multitracking.

I'll take a look at the cheapo 8-tracks with midi clock. Otherwise I'll make due with the H4, since it can fit in my pocket.

Ok, here's what you do. Find some kind of external midi device with a click, drum or other percussive sound. I've got an old Yamaha QY10 that I've used for this. Can be battery powered. One of those cheap Zoom drum machines would do the trick. Via midi trigger just the click where you want to start recording. Mix the click signal from this device with whatever sound you're recording. Set the threshold a bit higher and let the click trigger the recording. Then just trigger the sample from the same point as where the click played from and it will be in time. To remove the sound of the click from the sample, just increase the attack time. Or just calcualte the length of the one bar following the click and edit it out. The length will be in samples.. I have the formula here somewhere for calculating this accurately. Will post it up when I get a chance.

What you can also do is write to Akai and ask them to include the feature that lets you trigger sample recording from a midi note event. The MPC4000 never had this originally, but after people (mostly myself) kept asking for it, they eventually put it in.

I was able to use the MPC for complete recording, but you hit polyphony issues and it sucks trimming the sample to start at the right time. I also tried recording using pure audio multitrack, but it's a hassle...

So today this bad boy arrived



Midi out to the MPC, syncs up the beat when I press play on the multitrack, and now I have 8 tracks for vocals/instruments.

I posted a bunch of pics and a quick lil screw around with the built-in mic, you can check it here.

Jamon wrote:I was able to use the MPC for complete recording, but you hit polyphony issues and it sucks trimming the sample to start at the right time. I also tried recording using pure audio multitrack, but it's a hassle...

So today this bad boy arrived



Midi out to the MPC, syncs up the beat when I press play on the multitrack, and now I have 8 tracks for vocals/instruments.

I posted a bunch of pics and a quick lil screw around with the built-in mic, you can check it here.

Cool writeup/Review and pictures man.

Jamon wrote:I was able to use the MPC for complete recording, but you hit polyphony issues and it sucks trimming the sample to start at the right time. I also tried recording using pure audio multitrack, but it's a hassle...

So today this bad boy arrived



Midi out to the MPC, syncs up the beat when I press play on the multitrack, and now I have 8 tracks for vocals/instruments.

I posted a bunch of pics and a quick lil screw around with the built-in mic, you can check it here.

I'm interested in the 500 to use for complete recordings. I don't see how polyphony could be a problem if your recording audio to mix in with your sequences. I'm pretty sure polyphony is only related to notes played with MIDI tracks. If its just 1 audio sample, it can have 1 million notes in it, it will still count it as 1 sample or voice, I think.

Trimming the sample would be more of a hassle than pure multitrack audio recording, where the "take" is saved at the spot you played it originally. Though it should play the same if you set both the new audio sample and sequence to start at 1.1.1.

The bothersome part would be when your doing mulitple takes. Since you may have to go through that process only to find out that your take wasn't good and you have to re-record it anyway. Then go through it again and again, etc.

The mpc 1000 JJ os has audio tracks, just like a multitrack recorder, I think. It might be worth the extra money to just get the 1000. Only 100 or so more on ebay used, then 30 for the JJ OS.

Polyphony is an issue, your vocal tracks will cut out when a beat is too layered.
Timing is an issue, when you press record the sample and song start time will not be identical.
Workflow is an issue, doing retakes isn't always easy.

I use the Fostex MR8 MKII, and it gets the job done.
http://www.zzounds.com/a--994307/item--FOSMR8MKII

But now that the Tascam DP02CF is out, I'm considering it instead.
http://www.zzounds.com/a--994307/item--TASDP02CF

You just need something simple like that with MIDI Clock, then you do the beat on the MPC, and long audio tracks on the multitrack.

Thanks Jamon,

I was considering one of the digital multitracks to begin with. The boss br-line can actually load wav samples into the rhythm machine. Its limited to 13 sec per kit w/ 5 kits available, but w/ usb you can store as many as you need on a pc.

Together with the long audio recording time I was going to use it as a very slimmed down "budget" mpc w/o having to buy an mpc. I don't like using quantizing anyways, so audio recording is perfect.

The thing that has made me lean towards the mpc now is the sound quality on those multitracks. I've only been able to hear crappy metal bands on youtube using them, and it sounds horrible. Idk if its their bad playing or their instruments but it sounds very scratchy and I think the mpc1000 is the best/safest route to go.

If I can find one on ebay for around $500, it will save me money of buying a multitrack in the future, since the JJ OS can record audio tracks in the sequencer. Its hard to believe the mpc500 and 1000 are so close in price.

How do you like the sound of the fostex mr8? I had considered that too for a minute.

The Boss doesn't have MIDI.
The MPC100 will be limited too, it depends what you're doing.

When I first got the MPC500 one of my first experiments involved making full songs with it:
http://jamon.name/files/Jamon%20-%20I%2 ... 20you.flac
http://jamon.name/files/Jamon%20-%20Car ... 0step.flac

Then I got the MR8-MKII and used them together:
http://jamon.name/files/Jamon%20-%20Hypocrite.flac

But I wouldn't buy the Fostex til I checked that new Tascam out, it looks better.
You might want to get something like a SP-404 and multitrack if you just want to record live stuff. MPC is more for complex sequencing of samples and MIDI.

The MPC was only ever designed to be a sampler / sequencer and it is testament to it's adaptability that you are getting close to having a workaround when it comes to recording audio tracks. It was never designed to serve this purpose. Avenue's suggestion is a good one. I find that just a spot of trial and error works for me. Move the sample around in step edit and adjust the lead in time of the sample in trim mode. Couple of mins tops. That's if I want to work wholly inside the box mind you, can also work in conjunction with a multitracker.

As for the BR series, yes they have very basic sampler style operation but the only thing they transmit on midi out is midi clock so forget controlling external devices through the mpc and without a midi in you can also forget use of any external keyboards for your multisamples. And with only a single "program" per song and this on a single track you are going to encounter problems way more severe than the polyphony issues on the 500. I think the 500 works best in conjunction with a multitracker you can synch up via midi. Sequencing is an art and different to audio multitracking but they can work great together. If you make rock tracks or other "conventional" forms of music (based on audio) then I agree the mpc makes no sense, but as a part of a sample / sequencing studio it works great. Btw, in my opinion the sound quality on the multitracks are great, depends very much on the quality of the input signal, but this is the same with anything...

As for the bugs that make this thing worthless, I must confess I have yet to encounter anything that is making me feel that way. If I did I would sell up and change my setup. What sort of polyphony are you experiencing Jamon?

I'm new to the MPC game, so forgive me if this comment is way off track - but is this kind of thing why I've seen people use their MPC 500 as a slave linked up to an MBOX 2 and recording into ProTools?

Does a set up like this help with the problems you have been discussing? (I realise there's lots of reasons why people wouldn't want to try a set up like this.. but anyhow)

You plug a MIDI cable from the MTR's MIDI-out to the MPC's MIDI-in, and set the MPC as the slave. Now whenever you rewind and hit record on the MTR the MPC will begin playing in sync to the BPM. So what I do is first compose the background music on the MPC using the MIDI-in connected to an external keyboard. Then when there is a recognizable structure I unplug the keyboard and plug in the MTR. Now I can lay down long audio tracks like guitar, vocals, and any other acoustic instrument. When I'm done I just plug in my H4 recorder and record the MTR+MPC playing together. So the MPC is dedicated for short audio samples sequenced with MIDI, and the onboard FX and everthing is all for the beat. Then the MTR is dedicated for the higher layers of vocals with their own separate FX, and the two worlds collide into a mixer at the end. It is possible to do long vocals on the MPC alone, but it wasn't designed for that, the MTR was. Or if you don't like the modular approach the MPC5000 has a built-in MTR.