Getting 4000 in near future - Need your honest gripes.

No real gripes......I guess the biggest problem is that they are out of production....In a few years it will be hard to get repairs, replacement parts etc......as for the bugs....I'm not encountering anything that makes the 4k even remotely unusable. And the OS....1.7 & 1.71 both seem very stable to me. I produce pro level product on a 4k weekly with no problems. From reading this forum I see there are some minor issues but none I would have even noticed. I will say the FX are sub standard but with quality outboard fx and plug ins so readily available (and cheap) this is not really a problem......

[/quote]My gripe is probably minor for most users but major for me.

There's an inherrent delay in the machine when triggering samples.

What I mean is if I assign the same sound to 2 pads and have them trigger together, they flange a bit instead of just playing 6db louder.

If you're in a daw and you double a track, it doesn't flange because there is no delay between the tracks.


In the MPC this messes up the drum layering possibilities. Alot of times when I'm mixing, I'll mult my kicks/snrs etc... with different parts of the signal receiving processing from different plugs/outboard etc.... I wish I could sample each part of the mult and play them from different pads in the MPC, IF I could, I could basically mix my drums in the MPC without a DAW.[quote]

I don't get this

bob wrote:

My gripe is probably minor for most users but major for me.

There's an inherrent delay in the machine when triggering samples.

What I mean is if I assign the same sound to 2 pads and have them trigger together, they flange a bit instead of just playing 6db louder.

If you're in a daw and you double a track, it doesn't flange because there is no delay between the tracks.


In the MPC this messes up the drum layering possibilities. Alot of times when I'm mixing, I'll mult my kicks/snrs etc... with different parts of the signal receiving processing from different plugs/outboard etc.... I wish I could sample each part of the mult and play them from different pads in the MPC, IF I could, I could basically mix my drums in the MPC without a DAW.

I don't get this

Drum layer has little to do with drum triggering, it not just triggering multiple sounds.

Learn and understand the difference beforeyoucomplain.

That's not a MPC4000 limitation at all.

A DAW is sample-accurate, the MPC (or any other hardware sampler) is not.

To get sample-accurate playback of two different samples on the MPC4000 you have to assign them to the same pad (on different Zones).

Sovereign wrote:

bob wrote:

My gripe is probably minor for most users but major for me.

There's an inherrent delay in the machine when triggering samples.

What I mean is if I assign the same sound to 2 pads and have them trigger together, they flange a bit instead of just playing 6db louder.

If you're in a daw and you double a track, it doesn't flange because there is no delay between the tracks.


In the MPC this messes up the drum layering possibilities. Alot of times when I'm mixing, I'll mult my kicks/snrs etc... with different parts of the signal receiving processing from different plugs/outboard etc.... I wish I could sample each part of the mult and play them from different pads in the MPC, IF I could, I could basically mix my drums in the MPC without a DAW.

I don't get this

Drum layer has little to do with drum triggering, it not just triggering multiple sounds.

Learn and understand the difference beforeyoucomplain.

LOL You want to teach me how to mix next? Multing a kick involves splitting the sound into parts so I can process them differently. Before you go around "teaching" Learn and understand who you are speaking to and what he's saying before you comment.

I understand what multing, Layering, Triggering etc.. are and I utilize all three techniques when I mix.

PEACE

lcvl wrote:That's not a MPC4000 limitation at all.

A DAW is sample-accurate, the MPC (or any other hardware sampler) is not.

To get sample-accurate playback of two different samples on the MPC4000 you have to assign them to the same pad (on different Zones).

I did that and they flanged.

I wish they didn't. Infact I'll go try it again right now. But from memory I'm pretty sure they flanged. (IF they don't you'll be my new hero.)

I would like to be able to line up (for example) a compressed version of the kick with the uncompressed version and edit them in protools then send the samples (which would be the exact same length) into my 4k via aksys and place them in different zones with sample accuracy.

From what I remember it doesn't work

no ssl yet wrote:

Sovereign wrote:

bob wrote:

My gripe is probably minor for most users but major for me.

There's an inherrent delay in the machine when triggering samples.

What I mean is if I assign the same sound to 2 pads and have them trigger together, they flange a bit instead of just playing 6db louder.

If you're in a daw and you double a track, it doesn't flange because there is no delay between the tracks.


In the MPC this messes up the drum layering possibilities. Alot of times when I'm mixing, I'll mult my kicks/snrs etc... with different parts of the signal receiving processing from different plugs/outboard etc.... I wish I could sample each part of the mult and play them from different pads in the MPC, IF I could, I could basically mix my drums in the MPC without a DAW.

I don't get this

Drum layer has little to do with drum triggering, it not just triggering multiple sounds.

Learn and understand the difference beforeyoucomplain.

LOL You want to teach me how to mix next? Multing a kick involves splitting the sound into parts so I can process them differently. Before you go around "teaching" Learn and understand who you are speaking to and what he's saying before you comment.

I understand what multing, Layering, Triggering etc.. are and I utilize all three techniques when I mix.

PEACE

It would appear that you don't understand it since you are having problems with it and trying to blame it on the machine.
Different machines require different methods to get good layered drums and triggering is not the 4k's method.
As far as learning who I am talking to get real what are you going to do next get mad, take your ball and go home like you did over at GearSlutz?

Boy I swear the internet makes hurling insults easy.

You really don't deserve a real response You internet gangstas are special people.

LOL I guess you told me.

PEACE

Lord knows there can't be a flaw in the machine right It's the perfect Akai MPC 4000

LOL so you've followed me from one forum to talk about it on another? You're so hard.

(If I no longer post on a web site, you notice, talk about it on another site
and call it getting mad you're a broad. At least you're a gangsta broad (on the internet))

lcvl wrote:That's not a MPC4000 limitation at all.

A DAW is sample-accurate, the MPC (or any other hardware sampler) is not.

To get sample-accurate playback of two different samples on the MPC4000 you have to assign them to the same pad (on different Zones).

OK I did it again (in diff zones) today, I can hear a difference in the attack when I use different zones. (THis was my problem with zones before) It aint perfect. And if I'm multing drums, I need it to be sample accurate.

(I'll just keep doing it in the daw.)

I guess it's all a moot point because the MP will drift when I sync it to protools anyway.

Just that you had the same attitude, you came at me about telling you how to mix.

Again it goes back to what you want to do is not how layering works on the 4k.

OK I did it again (in diff zones) today, I can hear a difference in the attack when I use different zones. (THis was my problem with zones before) It aint perfect.

You need to work on the attack or start point on your samples in the different layers to create a uniform sound.
If you go to the Zone page you will see a setting for START for each layer.
Increasing that number will change how the sampler starts.
It has always allowed me to get the samples on the Zones to get a more uniform sound without a flanging or detuned sound.

Sovereign wrote:Just that you had the same attitude, you came at me about telling you how to mix.

Again it goes back to what you want to do is not how layering works on the 4k.

OK I did it again (in diff zones) today, I can hear a difference in the attack when I use different zones. (THis was my problem with zones before) It aint perfect.

You need to work on the attack or start point on your samples in the different layers to create a uniform sound.
If you go to the Zone page you will see a setting for START for each layer.
Increasing that number will change how the sampler starts.
It has always allowed me to get the samples on the Zones to get a more uniform sound without a flanging or detuned sound.

Dude I think you're missing my point. I know work arounds. But I'm not looking to change the start of one of the samples. It's the exact same sample length. Infact it's the same sample except one version of it has been compressed eq'd before it was edited. I don't want the starts altered. I don't want to adjust them. I have it exactly how I want the timing before I send the samples over from Aksys

I think you're assuming I'm using different samples and trying to layer them. I'm multing the drums, and I've already lined up the individual samples in ptools before cutting them and exporting the waves to go to the MPC

It's not a workaround it has to do with how the samples in the Zones are triggered.
The Start setting for each Zone doesn't actually chage the sample it just allows you to align them.
I use it all the time because I normally layer all my drum samples in the 4k with a sampled version of itself from the API's,160's, Distressor, Emax, ASR, etc.
Without the use of the Start function they have phase cancellation and such.
It's almost like when you use Shift timing on notes, but it actually just allowing you to get a consistent trigger across the Zones without changing the sample in the Zones.
You should try it and see.

OK I'll try it out tonight and let you know how it turns out.

PEACE.

I'm not totally understanding why the start times would be different when it's technically the same sample. They are edited and cut to be the exact same size.

Now if you REALLY wanna save the day tell me a way to sync to protools with no drift ever.

no ssl yet wrote:OK I'll try it out tonight and let you know how it turns out.

PEACE.

I'm not totally understanding why the start times would be different when it's technically the same sample. They are edited and cut to be the exact same size.

Now if you REALLY wanna save the day tell me a way to sync to protools with no drift ever.

It's nothing wrong with your samples that's why the work fine with the computer it's more about hardware vs computer for triggering.
So it's really just the 4k's method of dealing with how it goes about things.
As far as that PT thing it will always baffle the world because it seems like everytime you think you have found the perfect method you will use it and get different results.
What I have found to work best for me is to run my Mac at 64 buffers ( now 32 with 7.4 ) use MIDI Beat Clock and set the 4k for MIDI Clock plus MMC receive but also set the 4k to send MMC.
Then make the 4k sit and wait for the clock by pushing the Play button on the 4k.
This has worked well for me and the first kick is on the one as it should be without having to do a blank measure.
Since I am typically working with existing vocals and adding a new track it really important.

Nice and civil dialogue guys. Peace out to all.