By Antonym
Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:57 am
arebee wrote:my main point is that it WAS working fine without taking extra polyphony, around os4.84, then it all went pear shaped.
By arebee
Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:56 am
Mpc_Monk wrote:Nym or anybody else can someone please just do me this one favor and say what was the last/latest os version that the mutes worked properly on?
yo its 4.84, and try 4.85 - i think 4.85 is where it was working but the polyphony was wierd
By Mpc_Monk
Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:44 am
i see, ok i've gotta see if i have 484 around, btw any big things to miss out on between 4.84 and the current besides the pad fix stuff?
thanks alot you guys
thanks alot you guys
By arebee
Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:46 pm
yeah a few nice bits of bug fixing, a few too many to mention, but check the version history on jj site, decide whats important to u.
i know id rather have shitty mute/oneshot situation,
and keep midi cc record/editing,
and keep with 'next seq' working well in all windows.
i know id rather have shitty mute/oneshot situation,
and keep midi cc record/editing,
and keep with 'next seq' working well in all windows.
By africantigercow
Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:39 pm
here here.
thats exactly what i also need. for jamming live the above idea kills the most.
please please please take note aunty jj.
there should be at least 3 options to mute/stop of one-shot samples.
THROUGH: when track is muted, notes are not played. samples triggered in the track prior to mute being pressed continue to play. unmuting causes notes to be triggered again.
IMMEDIATE: when track is muted, notes are not played. samples triggered in the track prior to mute being pressed are stopped immediately to save polyphony. unmuting causes notes to be triggered again.
VOLUME: when track is muted, notes continue to be played and the volume of the samples is just muted. unmuting will cause volume to turn back on immediately in the same manner as if you were muting/unmuting a channel on a mixer.
thats exactly what i also need. for jamming live the above idea kills the most.
please please please take note aunty jj.
By hoosdat
Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:41 pm
This mess that the track mute screen has become is ridiculous! Intuitively, VOLUME is what is needed to be transparently implemented, and be the default behaviour.
Just look at any DAW sequencer, what happens when you mute a track? it silences. what happens when you unmute a track? it starts playing again from the cursor position. Or look to what akai did on the mpc2500 os (and take hints about the recordable track mutes too).
Having the option to choose what method each one prefers is a bonus of cource, but let's get the basics right first.
Just look at any DAW sequencer, what happens when you mute a track? it silences. what happens when you unmute a track? it starts playing again from the cursor position. Or look to what akai did on the mpc2500 os (and take hints about the recordable track mutes too).
Having the option to choose what method each one prefers is a bonus of cource, but let's get the basics right first.
By mikolo
Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:11 pm
there should be at least 3 options to mute/stop of one-shot samples.
THROUGH: when track is muted, notes are not played. samples triggered in the track prior to mute being pressed continue to play. unmuting causes notes to be triggered again
IMMEDIATE: when track is muted, notes are not played. samples triggered in the track prior to mute being pressed are stopped immediately to save polyphony. unmuting causes notes to be triggered again.
VOLUME: when track is muted, notes continue to be played and the volume of the samples is just muted. unmuting will cause volume to turn back on immediately in the same manner as if you were muting/unmuting a channel on a mixer.
It'd be cool if you could set the track mute characteristics for each track. One track could be set to through, another to volume etc.
Group track mute would be good too, i think its been mentioned before: unmute/mute a track and it will do the same to any other linked track.
And toggle track mute wherby you can unmute a track which will mute another and vice versa.
[/i]
By rinseout
Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:23 pm
hoosdat wrote:Just look at any DAW sequencer, what happens when you mute a track? it silences. what happens when you unmute a track? it starts playing again from the cursor position. Or look to what akai did on the mpc2500 os (and take hints about the recordable track mutes too).
Thats when you mute the audio track. If i mute a midi track in cubase, it acts just like the mpc. You want the audio to be muted AND the track, which leads to serious problems for the programmer:
Either you reduce the output volume of given tracks in the mixer, reduce the volume for the whole pgm? That wouldnt be good since there might be other tracks playing that program. Muting the audio of the events played was what JJ tried, but then you have to do sth about simulted pads, pads muting each other, mute groups, pgms set to mono plus the people where crying out loud for polyphony issues.
So i dont think its that easily doable, also some versions were close JJ gave up in the end, i think due to the issues mentioned.
So either beg JJ for a OS Version for live loopers or start chopping your stuff smaller, the mpc is no sp.
Hope this settles it, i´m sick of hearing "oh why didnt JJ do this", we´ve beenn through all this before.
By hoosdat
Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:04 pm
rinseout, if akai can do it in the mpc2500 os, i'm sure jj can do it too. i think he got disillusioned by all the differing opinions about how track mutes should be implemented and messed things up. i'm positive though that he will give us a solution that will satisfy everybody -- the track mute page is of the most creative pages ever on a synth and its present condition is killing all its potential.
By rinseout
Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:19 pm
Never been on a 2500, id like to see how they implemented that. I´ll check our the manual later.
By primebeatz
Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:47 pm
africantigercow wrote:here here.please please please take note aunty jj.
Please honor our requests, aunty JJ
By punchdrunk
Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:44 am
rinseout wrote:Thats when you mute the audio track. If i mute a midi track in cubase, it acts just like the mpc. You want the audio to be muted AND the track, which leads to serious problems for the programmer:
Either you reduce the output volume of given tracks in the mixer, reduce the volume for the whole pgm? That wouldnt be good since there might be other tracks playing that program. Muting the audio of the events played was what JJ tried, but then you have to do sth about simulted pads, pads muting each other, mute groups, pgms set to mono plus the people where crying out loud for polyphony issues.
So i dont think its that easily doable, also some versions were close JJ gave up in the end, i think due to the issues mentioned.
So either beg JJ for a OS Version for live loopers or start chopping your stuff smaller, the mpc is no sp.
Hope this settles it, i´m sick of hearing "oh why didnt JJ do this", we´ve beenn through all this before.
why do you make it sound like this is an impossible, crazy feature to request?
its not even a new feature request.
recordable track mutes worked correctly back in 4.84.
nonrecordable track mutes worked on previous models of mpcs.
THEY SHOULD WORK NOW.
track mutes have always been a great feature that is useless now.
i'd rather have the option to deal with polyphony issues myself, rather than have track mutes broken and unusable.
http://www.myspace.com/sixlsixlsix
yeah, i'm bored.
yeah, i'm bored.
By rinseout
Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:49 pm
punchdrunk wrote:its not even a new feature request.
recordable track mutes worked correctly back in 4.84.
nonrecordable track mutes worked on previous models of mpcs.
THEY SHOULD WORK NOW.
4.84 was close, but still bugs with this issue.
Just read the 2kxl´s and the 2500 manual, there are no different mute settings, so i assume they work like the old mutes from the akai 1k os (like muting a midi track in cubase/logic/..., called "through" now)
Did JJ get this to work on the 2500?
why do you make it sound like this is an impossible, crazy feature to request?
Maybe because i just dont need it, maybe because JJ tried and failed. I know we are all using our units differently and respect that, but i still cant understand why theres so much need for features that the mpc is apparently not created for.
track mutes have always been a great feature that is useless now.
i'd rather have the option to deal with polyphony issues myself, rather than have track mutes broken and unusable.
Thats why i said, beg JJ for making a loopers OS
Btw. heres the history of the track mute issues, again
4.79: Mute:immediate, unmute only if track wasnt muted when the note starts
4.80:
Bug fix & Change: New OS Ver4.80 09-Aug-2007
----------------------------------------------
[TRACK MUTE]
Condition
[ One shot sample ]
When playing the sequence in loop , even if it un-mute the track which is MUTE,
sound does not come out.
Now sample stops playing at the end of sequence, notes on muted tracks mute other samples when set to mono/same mute group. Grid edit, "step sound:on" plays notes from muted tracks.
4.83:
Bug fixes & Addition & Delete : New OS Ver4.83 29-Aug-2007
-------------------------------------------------------
...
8. [GRID]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[OTHER] page
F2[MISC.]
Mute/stop of one-shot sample:IMMEDIATE<-- <<<< IMMEDIATE >>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
At the time of this setup STEP SOUND is not muted.
Sample still stops playing at the end of sequence, notes on muted tracks mute other samples when set to mono/same mute group.
4.84: Now samples dont stop at the end of the sequence, nothing being announced bout that or just my mistake? Samples still mute each other when set to mono, even if they are on different tracks and one is muted.
So i think we have to decide, its either:
- being able to unmute a sample even if the track its on was muted when the note was played (4.80+)
or
- having tracks that are muted not doing anything at all. Since 4.80 the note still triggers, but the audio is muted, thus can be unmuted anytime. This led to new problems (sample stops at end of sequence, muted tracks mute other samples set to mono, step sound playing muted tracks) where im not sure if JJ can sort them all out without creating new bugs (i know JJ can do it all, but theres still limitations on the system).
This topic comes up every now and then, i dont think JJ will ever solve your problem, i´m sorry for you
By punchdrunk
Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:40 pm
rinseout wrote:Just read the 2kxl´s and the 2500 manual, there are no different mute settings, so i assume they work like the old mutes from the akai 1k os (like muting a midi track in cubase/logic/..., called "through" now)
reading your reply made me go back and load up all my old JJ os's AND
the last akai os.....
your right. for some reason i remember track mutes always working like in
IMMEDIATE mode but that ain't the case. it originally worked as THROUGH
mode, and JJ improved on it. i completely blocked this fact out of my
memory.
my fault, i was wrong.
thanks for the breakdown on all the issues through the older OS's.
going through the older JJ os's it seems like the issue i noticed the most was that if a track was muted when an event hit, the event would not sound (even when the track was unmuted). other times i noticed note on events acting a little weird too. but all of those issues included it was still amazingly better compared to how track mutes are now.
its funny though. i never noticed any of these problems when i was actually making beats and using the track mute feature all the time.
overall though i'd still rather have it put back in malfunctioning a little (the way it was in 4.84 or 4.85) rather than the way it is now.
peace.
http://www.myspace.com/sixlsixlsix
yeah, i'm bored.
yeah, i'm bored.
By rinseout
Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:40 pm
np, just had to find my old posting about that.
For my part i´m almost perfectly happy with the OS1 as it is right now (1 small bug to be fixed), will be joining the OS2 crowd when i finished the projects i´m working on atm.
For my part i´m almost perfectly happy with the OS1 as it is right now (1 small bug to be fixed), will be joining the OS2 crowd when i finished the projects i´m working on atm.