Who needs and MPC5000? Single Cycle Adventures

fader-pro wrote:Not dissin you man...

No worries, mate, I hope I didn't come of as too harsh either. Cheers.

Here's a nice synth sound I made. And if you got knobs you can even twist them. A simple but still a very nice TB-303 like bass line synthesiser:

http://vandewerk.nl/bazziman

(go to the blog section)

You can follow the instructions and make your own or go straight to the bottom of the page and download the sound and put it in your Akai. Enjoy!

If anybody makes an improved version of the EMPEE303: I would love to hear it. If anybody does anything creative with the saw wave samples I used: I would love to hear that too. If you use it in a piece of music or a beat: I would really love to hear that.

Cheers,
Bazziman

OK bazz...thanks....here is the direction my MPC based projects are heading......synths are done on a Roland.....JP 8000 Peace....

http://www.kitebrosmusic.com/projects.html

fader-pro wrote:OK bazz...thanks....here is the direction my MPC based projects are heading......synths are done on a Roland.....JP 8000 Peace....

http://www.kitebrosmusic.com/projects.html

Nice webpage...I could only listen to the 'who' song (the rest of the pages seemed broken?) and that sounded really nice. Sweetly mixed and lovely vocal samples. What's it for? A documentary? (big blue skies, oceans, birds etc.) A commercial? (for something tropical, far away place) It sounds really dreamy and big. In a good way.

Did you like my Empee303?

It's for nothing yet I cooked it up for a beat battle here on these forums...nutz huh.....It's a possible for a "world music" project I'm workin on periodically but I don't know....already got something similar cookin in that one......probably sell it in some form or another...



....the site is a "dead end" at the moment - intentionally......


......your site on the other hand...very well done - I actually learned something.... I use the MPC primarily as a sequencer / drum sampler - I usually just tweak "stock" sounds to taste as I'm typically "overdue" on several projects at once......that and since guitar and reeds are my first two instruments, I can't afford to drill down to too much serious sound creation - which is pretty funny considering I'll spend a week on a "soundscape".....

"Did you like my Empee303?"

Very much indeed. Good use of graphics to explain the process in your blog.

The VL-Tone info was great. I got one when they first came out and should get another one. ;)

Curious to hear an example of the four layer crossfade "vector ish" type pgm Illiac was talking about.

thanks for all the info.

fader-pro wrote:It's for nothing yet I cooked it up for a beat battle here on these forums...nutz huh.....It's a possible for a "world music" project I'm workin on periodically but I don't know....already got something similar cookin in that one......probably sell it in some form or another...

It sounds really nice. I really got those 'world' pictures so you struck a chord (pun intended).

......your site on the other hand...very well done - I actually learned something.... I use the MPC primarily as a sequencer / drum sampler -

I think that's true for 90% of MPC4k users. Akai knows this too; that's why they went back the the drum / phrase engine from the 1000 onward; most users just don't care for full sampling.

I can't afford to drill down to too much serious sound creation

For me it's what I do when I am not working or playing with my kid or doing the dishes or repairing a leaky roof. These little experiments are what I get my kicks from.

- which is pretty funny considering I'll spend a week on a "soundscape".....

Haha. Do you own a Wavestation? Of a Fizmo they are 'soundscape' dreams come true (supposedly).

When I'm in a real hurry, I use the Korg Karma.....It cuts down a job that took a two weeks in the 80's and a week in the 90's, to a day long project......I still sample on the MPC as you heard with the vocal samples, but sample editing is done on the PC.....I've been using MIDI CC's for years for "automated" mixing of my MIDI rig, but since I got automated mixers (o2r's) I've been doing less of that too.......50% of my paying gigs are in the advertising field and they typically want it yesterday.

I started with a Roger Linn Beta MPC 60 back in '88....betweeen that and a Emulator, I was in clover for soundscape work.........

fader-pro wrote:When I'm in a real hurry, I use the Korg Karma.....It cuts down a job that took a two weeks in the 80's and a week in the 90's, to a day long project......

I love that machine. Can it control other synths as well (using the Karma Engine) now *that* would rock.

I still sample on the MPC as you heard with the vocal samples, but sample editing is done on the PC.....

Same here. Sound Forge all the way. The only reason I didn't switch to mac completely.

I've been using MIDI CC's for years for "automated" mixing of my MIDI rig, but since I got automated mixers (o2r's) I've been doing less of that too.......

I'm stilll figuring that out on my 01v96 which I basically use as a really expensive analogue mixer with patch memories.

50% of my paying gigs are in the advertising field and they typically want it yesterday.

I know, I know. You've got people like me to thank for that. I'm the one who is telling advertising companies to deliver their stuff the day before yesterday.

I started with a Roger Linn Beta MPC 60 back in '88....betweeen that and a Emulator, I was in clover for soundscape work.........

I would love to get my hands on either of those machine. Or even a Mirage....The satisfaction of doing things the old skool / experimental way (or pretending that you do) is much greater than having 1,234,948 software plugins. That's the luxury of not having to do this for a living I guess.

fader-pro wrote:So my eyes are glazing over here....I've got a synth.....I tweak knobs...sounds come out.....I'm happy!

You tech dudes makin any music?

great post ha ha!
g

If you're serious about programming synthesizers, you have to understand how they work. I've never heard of a sound designer who didn't understand synthesis well. Have a look at the bio of any successful electronic musician (BT, Brian Eno, Squarepusher, you name it), and you'll find out that that they know a lot about synthesizers (more than just how to turn the knobs). Guys like Ben Crosland and Andi Vax who design sounds for the Virus know a ton about synthesizers. It lets them think about synthesis and sound without having to think in terms of a particular synthesizer.

A lot of synthesizer users don't design any sounds of course, they just pull up presets, and for that you don't need to know much.

-illiac

illiac wrote:If you're serious about programming synthesizers, you have to understand how they work. I've never heard of a sound designer who didn't understand synthesis well. Have a look at the bio of any successful electronic musician (BT, Brian Eno, Squarepusher, you name it), and you'll find out that that they know a lot about synthesizers (more than just how to turn the knobs). Guys like Ben Crosland and Andi Vax who design sounds for the Virus know a ton about synthesizers. It lets them think about synthesis and sound without having to think in terms of a particular synthesizer.

A lot of synthesizer users don't design any sounds of course, they just pull up presets, and for that you don't need to know much.

-illiac

Hey ill....not tootin my horn but my house payment etc, comes from primarily electronic music and I'll be the first to admit I have limited synthisis experience......check out the track I posted earlier in this discussion. Not only is it all pro and broadcast ready; It relies on synths as well as samples. The synths were 'tweaked" heavily, but could I give you a classroom explanation? nope. now I'm not a sound designer exactly, but rather a soundscape creator. The lead instrument tone in that piece however, is one I'm pretty proud of.......In the same vein, there are tons of successful guitarists who can't read music, pianists who never took the first music lesson etc.....I'll be the first to admit though, I wish I'd taken the lessons, not dropped out, and tuned in.......I really respect (and try to learn from) those with the tech knowledge........I keep defending my post but it was really just a joke.......Question? you think the technically inclined might not have as good a sense of humor as your average joe?

One of the joys about music is that it's not rocket science......for a dropout, it's beats diggin ditches or flippin burgers....


****I believe perserverence is far more important than education*****

fader-pro wrote:****I believe perserverence is far more important than education*****

Sure. That and a little talent go a long way.

But as with any art form - understanding how your art works and how things can be done is a great tool in and by it self. Rembrandt would not have become the master of his trade without an understanding of anatomy, perspective or the way light behaves. Similarly a lot of great artists and producers do understand music theory and technology.

I believe that 'natural' talents can make great music and art: intuitively and without much fundamental or technical knowledge.....but creative experimentation leads to new knowledge as much as it requires it.


p.s. MPC's, synths, violins or even simple microphones wouldn't be here if it weren't for 'techies' applying technical and mathematical knowledge.

Bazziman wrote:[ p.s. MPC's, synths, violins or even simple microphones wouldn't be here if it weren't for 'techies' applying technical and mathematical knowledge.

I'm diggin you bro......As to an earlier question about the KARMA: Much of the magic of the machine is MIDI......Unfortunatly, even the laymans manuals cover it in about 400 pages......It's been my bathroom reader for 6 months now, and I'm just getting a good handle on it. Even the designers admit it's deeper than they even imagined......The interface is piss-poor BTW and just running it as a Multi Timbral sound module took an hour to figure out.....It actually has to be in sequencer mode for this, you can't just assign a channel and go....

'Course it's fun just to twist some knobs and see what comes out....

PPS. Somehow over the years, I've learned more than I let on.....I was surprised recently to learn that I read and write musical notation: I "kinda" learned to read as a kid but rarely (if ever) use it these days....... recently we had a horn section with no score - and the cat who does this for me never showed.....It took a minute but I did it.....go figure

Yeah, it's great to turn knobs and see what comes out. But it's hard to go very far down that road with synthesizers I think. You get to a point where you say, OK, I need a sound that's like this (imagines sound in head). And you try to make that sound quickly. Maybe it's airy and diffuse but it has a kind of hollow resonance, or whatever.

If you use a synth with a fixed architecture like the Virus or V-Synth or a soft synth like ES2, then at least there are knobs for you turn; but there are hundreds of knobs and envelopes and parameters, and it takes forever to make your sound if you start turning them blindly.

Iif you use something like Max/MSP, Reaktor or Kyma, there are no knobs at all. You just get a big footlocker full of modules and have to wire them together and build your own knobs before there is any sound at all, haha. So going about it blindly is impossible, really.

In the case of using the MPC4000 as a synth, it's kind of a like a fixed architecture synth, except that you have to think through the stuff that's not obvious. Like aliasing, which will wreck the sound if you don't take care of it (it sounds like wrong notes being played).

Anyhow, it's all good. It's amazing that the MPC4K can do this stuff at all.

-illiac