still newbie after 2 years...

ccone wrote:for instance i'm trying to record a track - i followed the user guide till page 21 paragraph 9 - but when i strike the pads there is no sound - i hear a sound in program mode with the correct program selected... -c

well i've come a little ways since 2006 (turning on the 4000 a little here a little there) - i tried the 5000 out in anaheim and i'll keep going with the 4000. i'm cool with the box now -its been hard going to the manual constantly during creative processes -but its all good. 4000 has a solid sound - pt is lame in comparison - putting samples on the grid in pt (including beat detective's mpc quantize deal) simply does sound as good as triggering them from the 4000. just sounds like same feel as a chopped up rock band or something (fall out boy, etc). i dont really have experience with other daw's - saw t-pain at remix hotel - he apparently likes logic - its all good again - i don't hear logic in his mixes though...

one thing: i have a motif rack - i come up with ideas using the 4000 sequencer and motif & virus polar because its quick. i've tried sampling them and saving everything in the 4000 but allot of times the sampling doesnt sound as good original (but the timing/triggering is better with the samples in the 4000).. also i have very limited 4000 sound library... so i guess i need the following:

(1.) if people use allot on synths -how do you keep track/recall a song effectively - can i see your track sheet... i don't really want to print to pt when i'm fiddling around with ideas...

(2.) anyone have for sale (or trade, otherwise) a significant 4000 library where i can put a ton of stuff in autoload and not use the modules... i have kid nepro but theres so much dead space before the sample starts its unusable... a chicken sys build might be able to fix some of that...

just what i'm thinking at the time... -c

ccone wrote:

ccone wrote:for instance i'm trying to record a track - i followed the user guide till page 21 paragraph 9 - but when i strike the pads there is no sound - i hear a sound in program mode with the correct program selected... -c

well i've come a little ways since 2006 (turning on the 4000 a little here a little there) - i tried the 5000 out in anaheim and i'll keep going with the 4000. i'm cool with the box now -its been hard going to the manual constantly during creative processes -but its all good. 4000 has a solid sound - pt is lame in comparison - putting samples on the grid in pt (including beat detective's mpc quantize deal) simply does sound as good as triggering them from the 4000. just sounds like same feel as a chopped up rock band or something (fall out boy, etc). i dont really have experience with other daw's - saw t-pain at remix hotel - he apparently likes logic - its all good again - i don't hear logic in his mixes though...

one thing: i have a motif rack - i come up with ideas using the 4000 sequencer and motif & virus polar because its quick. i've tried sampling them and saving everything in the 4000 but allot of times the sampling doesnt sound as good original (but the timing/triggering is better with the samples in the 4000).. also i have very limited 4000 sound library... so i guess i need the following:

(1.) if people use allot on synths -how do you keep track/recall a song effectively - can i see your track sheet... i don't really want to print to pt when i'm fiddling around with ideas...

(2.) anyone have for sale (or trade, otherwise) a significant 4000 library where i can put a ton of stuff in autoload and not use the modules... i have kid nepro but theres so much dead space before the sample starts its unusable... a chicken sys build might be able to fix some of that...

just what i'm thinking at the time... -c

The more I work with Multis the more I can do.

Ditch the 4k manual concerning the sampler scratch out that idea, no, no, just keep the 4k manual for the sequencer functions. However pick up the S5000/S6000 manual to get the real deal on 4k`s sampler and program matrix aka All Program Matrix organization down pat. I`m not talking about sampling rates and all that jazz. Simple layering, tweaking, building, and creating sounds with the keygroup programs like you like with the right sources, controllers, and destinations.

The Hollow Sun guy is the designer of the S3000 thru S5/6000 series and he explains alot in very easy, step by step process for each detail function of the sampler and how it works.

Z8, Z4, and 4k are just jazzed up rates, resolutions, extra controllers, and a higher spec sequencer based on the S5000 to S6000 series but in the translation of the manual all the good, simple, and informative stuff from S6000 series was lost purposely or not by Akai.

Anyway check out Hollow sun for multisamples and ideas on building your own Multis aka banks, combo, and custom programs.

Blue Haze wrote:The more I work with Multis the more I can do.

Ditch the 4k manual concerning the sampler scratch out that idea, no, no, just keep the 4k manual for the sequencer functions. However pick up the S5000/S6000 manual to get the real deal on 4k`s sampler and program matrix aka All Program Matrix organization down pat. I`m not talking about sampling rates and all that jazz. Simple layering, tweaking, building, and creating sounds with the keygroup programs like you like with the right sources, controllers, and destinations.

The Hollow Sun guy is the designer of the S3000 thru S5/6000 series and he explains alot in very easy, step by step process for each detail function of the sampler and how it works.

Z8, Z4, and 4k are just jazzed up rates, resolutions, extra controllers, and a higher spec sequencer based on the S5000 to S6000 series but in the translation of the manual all the good, simple, and informative stuff from S6000 series was lost purposely or not by Akai.

Anyway check out Hollow sun for multisamples and ideas on building your own Multis aka banks, combo, and custom programs.

I'll be getting some hollow sun libraries.

When you say "program matrix" or "all program matrix" is that basically what a multi is (a matrix of programs)?

When you say "banks, combo and customs programs" is that also what a multi is?

Multi's for me are good -at first they really jook'd me because I'd spend time putting together a program and then it wouldnt come up in the sequence window -so I was always like "I didnt put the dang program in a multi yet!" but then I started to like Multi's because I didnt have to mess with the program in order to do allot of stuff...

What your saying though is that Multi's are really the things open up allot of creativity on the 4000. I'm not 100% sure why this is true yet.

So I ask why "The more I work with Multis the more I can do." you already explained this some -I'd just like more details

I downloaded the S5000/S6000 manual along with all the addendums -lots of paper -good thing my printer can do double sided printing

Also curious how many songs that won grammy's tonight used the 4000...

Multi, is a very good way to stack sounds (multiple programs, same channel) like a "combinator"

Basically yes the multi is like a combinator on reason and a multi can be just one program also.

With the multi you can customize the keyranges of several programs, switch programs at the twist of a knob, just aksys to stack programs more than just the three pads on the previous mpcs, plus do velocity switching and a whole lots of features. The S5000/S6000 manual like I said before explains alot of uses, techniques, and the process of the FULL sampler more in detailed than the 4k manual does. Please don`t trick out on specs like some others cuz that isn`t what I`m talking about. Just how MULTIS were designed and how you can USE THEM.


Imagine the 4k without the sequencer and just the sampler and you needed to play it and express your playing covering the Loudness, Brightnes/Darkness of the sound and Pitch of the note. You would connect your midi keyboard and assign the Pitch Wheel, Mod Wheel and how the keys would react Loud, Soft, Bright, Dulll, Aftertouch, Pressure, Velocity, Off Velocity, REVERSE VELOCITY aka TILT Velocitiy and the Pitch plus you would want to use your midi keyboard sliders and knobs to control the sampler programs DEPTH, RATE, DELAY, LEVEL just like on a real ROM synth.


All program matrix means is assigning real time controllers on your midi keyboard to the sampler and use the remote controlllers of the sound like ENVELOPES, LFOS, or Sequnecer with Automation to control, mold, and change your sounds.

There is alot more to all of this BUT I`m trying to simplify this as much as possible it is IMPORTANT to look at your MIDI Keyboard and all of it`s Controllers and think of a SYNTH just a SAMPLER is different cuz you change the sounds and add your own.

With this in mind you use your Midi keyboard to control the shape of the sounds, loudness of the sounds, color of the sounds, and just about everything. The matrix allows you to do this. Read Synth basic guide and the S5000 manual back to back they explains most in easy to understand and simple terms.

Plus the past threads.

Multis were the design of the Hollow Sun designer and they are crazy extensive to work with just from the multi page.

Tip when you play your 4k most people stare at the Main page get away from that and try working in the Multi List Page go to the step/sequence editor time to time if you have too.

I``m out.

Hi. I have been Googling and searched this forum and can't find the manuals to the s5000/s6000. Can you please share the link? Thanks!!!

Nevermind! Found them, sorry:

http://www.akaipro.com/archives.php

I use the 4000 as a the sequencer for my motif and polar TI.

set up 2 bars of intro on each song (you can use a sequence trk for this) and do a progam change midid ump from each synth

hmm, I am just about to buy a midi controller for my 4k, I was thinking just about getting a keyboard, thinking knobs and sliders weren't really important... but maybe I should be thinking differently

I am interested in how you deal with the association of midicontrollers to the sampler? Do you have some standard midi controller setup you use? how does that work - by patch? by multi? is there a template that can be imported?

I am thinking i would like the physical control but I dont want to spend the next few years assigning the same knob to filter frequency on a zillion patches

O

owenb wrote:hmm, I am just about to buy a midi controller for my 4k, I was thinking just about getting a keyboard, thinking knobs and sliders weren't really important... but maybe I should be thinking differently

I am interested in how you deal with the association of midicontrollers to the sampler? Do you have some standard midi controller setup you use? how does that work - by patch? by multi? is there a template that can be imported?

I am thinking i would like the physical control but I dont want to spend the next few years assigning the same knob to filter frequency on a zillion patches

O

I use a Korg Kontrol 49 but the choice is yours I would read up on great midi controllers for the values Future Music and Computer music has some great reviews.

Most midi assignments work the same way set the control change number the same for the source controller knob or slider and the same number in the 4k program matrix controller source >>>Destination>Amp/Pitch/Filter Cutoff etc. Please read up on synth/sampler basics.

Remember each individual keygroup/note can have different controllers assign to various destination each and different mults can have different programs with different setups which you can switch at will.

Basically lets go back to basics a for a musician to play an synth/sampler to express his musicial ideas he must manually manipulate pitch aka keys, timbre aka bright/dark and amplitude aka soft or loudness.

This was done indirectly by using a controller or master controller (keyboard) to physically interact between the performer and the programs within the instruments. The controller is an integral part of an instrument.

Check your keyboard layout for expressing your sounds

Keys-Pitch, Cresendos, soft/loud, dark/bright, duration, instrument types aka piano split along with bass, pressure/aftertouch, velocity.

Pitch Bend-Pitch bend aka sharp notes/flat notes, filter cutoff aka open close.

Mod Controller-Depth of LFO, Filter Cutoff, Amplitude, Zone Select you name it

Sliders-Loudness,Pan, Attack, Decay, Release, Delay, Pitch, Effects, Release

Knobs-Attack, Phase, Offset, Env Attack, Env Release and the list goes on.


Now these are just some small parts you can have one knob control alot per programs in different mults which is a whole lot more than just drum pads to play your sounds.

Download the S5/6000 manual plus addendums get a basic synth sound designing guide check out McSmooth`s and DJredhead`s posts too along with Bazzimans and tips also.


Tip everything is the basic a master midi keyboard plus sampler/synth use the sequencer to record and the pads for one-shot drum sounds. But the keyboard really helps to design your sounds and manipulate thems cuz all the parameters in my book were set up for the keyboard as the master controllers oppose to the pads.

Hi Blaze, I don't think you got my question. I'll try to clearer:

do I have to associate individual midi CCs to the destination for each program I use, or can I do it on a muti - level or even default level? If I have 128 programs in a multi I am wondering if I need to make the CC associations on each program individually - that would be a major PITA

but in fact I always want CC1 to be filter cutoff for any program, so I don't want to assign it each time


maybe i am being dim, but i looked at the manuals for the 4k, z8 and 6000 and I can't see the answer. the 6000 manual says this:

"The selected controller is set in EXT APM CONT field in the MIDI page in UTILITIES"

that suggests to me there is a central point where the CCs can be assigned by default, so CC1 is always related to filter cutoff for any program i use - but at least in my blurred state today I can't find anything like this in the 4k

O

Uh... mod wheel uses CC 1. Sure you can pick anything, but it makes sense to go with something that is not commonly used by other functions. Filter cutoff is assigned to 74 by a lot of stuff (71 for res).

There is no way to have CCs set up as default for any programs and they are not assigned to multis. You would have to start up a blank program, make the settings, then save it as a template so you can start with it each time.

Using CCs also has limitations, you can only have them effect the assigned parameter one way (positive or negative). That can be kind of annoying since the parameters would already need to be in a max/min position, so you have to plan accordingly. Sometimes it is worth the trouble if you do not want to hog up the q-links or set up all your programs with the same routings like you are talking about.

On the other hand, you can use q-links to control this and quite a few other parameters on the 4000. Then you don't need to mess with doing all that assigning each time. Although it would be nice to have every single parameter ready to control by every MIDI CC, you'll find that you typically will only need to automate a few things (level, pan, filter, etc) that are covered by the q-link parameters. Then you can rely on the mod-matrix + midi CCs for other things that come up.

There are 3 ways to use q-links to control filter cutoff.

First you can directly set the q-link to that parameter. That works great, but you have to leave q-link assigned to that parameter for it to keep working and you only get 6.

You can use the EXT sources in the mod matrix to assign directly to the q-links (similarly to the way you would with CCs). This gives you access to more parameters, but still eats up q-links.

Finally you can use Pad Control in the Q-links send menu, but there are only a few parameters. The nice thing about that method is they are recorded as seperate events into the sequencer and you can re-assign the q-links afterwards. I believe it only works on drum programs though.

owenb wrote:Hi Blaze, I don't think you got my question. I'll try to clearer:

do I have to associate individual midi CCs to the destination for each program I use, or can I do it on a muti - level or even default level? If I have 128 programs in a multi I am wondering if I need to make the CC associations on each program individually - that would be a major PITA

but in fact I always want CC1 to be filter cutoff for any program, so I don't want to assign it each time


maybe i am being dim, but i looked at the manuals for the 4k, z8 and 6000 and I can't see the answer. the 6000 manual says this:

"The selected controller is set in EXT APM CONT field in the MIDI page in UTILITIES"

that suggests to me there is a central point where the CCs can be assigned by default, so CC1 is always related to filter cutoff for any program i use - but at least in my blurred state today I can't find anything like this in the 4k

O

Make a blank program with all the controller assignments on your keyboard with the destinations set to zero depths. Save as part of your Autoload setup up then each time you make a new program just make a copy of the blank programs and load the samples into the zones.

You can do the same with your Multis.

Oh McSmooth said the same thing all well.

When using lots of synths or other MIDI gear, create a track for each piece of gear - with any multi timbral device, you may want several tracks on different MIDI channels. This would be a part of your "template" song. be sure to dial in all your synth sounds on the MPC (Program change menu). In other words do not choose sounds directly on the synth, but get used to controlling program changes via MIDI - turning local control off helps a bit with this. That way, when you save, the various programs you've assigned will be saved too. Unless you change your MIDI setup, everything will be recalled when you load your sequence. This will work on any MIDI device including FX......I save everything including samples for each project. The time savings is more important than saving disk space. I want to hit load and be right back where I left off on a project in less than a minute..........I remember a time (years ago) when I would have to take polaroids of all my mixer setting, keep track sheets and still it took 20 minutes to bring up a mix....

^ Good tips. I've also found its best to store synth patch MIDI dumps into seperate sequences since they can be pretty easy to overwrite or modify. Not needed on read-only presets, but if you do any in depth programming, sometimes you come up with one of those crazy sounds you can never replicate again, so its nice to have a backup.