Forum to discuss all matters relating to the MPC1000 and MPC2500 operating systems created by 'JJ' (all versions).
By MUDDYS Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:36 pm
Would'nt it be cool to have 2 more pad banks, so you can have a full 88keys mapped across your midi keyboards? Do you think it can be done?

By dtaa pla muk Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:45 pm
you can have notes 0-127 mapped to your midi keyboard
you can have notes 35-99 mapped to your pads

By MUDDYS Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:49 pm
how?

By MUDDYS Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:06 pm
how can you have, lets say a piano mapped across 88keys, if only 64sounds can load from a kit?

By dtaa pla muk Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:13 pm
it'd be great to have 2 more banks, but it's unnecessary with INST pgms in OS2. in os2's INST pgms you don't assign sounds to pads, you assign sounds to a range of midi notes.

http://youtube.com/nymantics

not to plug the vids but watch the inst building tutorials, part i and ii

By MUDDYS Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:17 pm
I see, thanks

By roxstar Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:56 am
There has to be an easier way to make do this? Can't the MPC4000/mv800 take one sample and do the same thing? The reason I'm asking is because if I need (example) a bagpipe kit and fine a few notes on a record, I doubt I'll find every note to make a perfect kit. This may be good for some people, but it's way too much of a long process for me. 1000 ideas on what I could do to the beat would go by before I finish creating a single kit.

By MUDDYS Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:11 am
i can dig it!! ^

By dtaa pla muk Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:20 pm
if you take 1 note to do this, the resulting sound gets worse and worse the further you stretch it. the mpc1000/2500 jj os's can do this in many ways. the 4000/mv can do this, too, that is stretching a single note, but it will not sound as good as a multisampled INST pgm, no matter what platform the INST pgm is coming from.

stretching a single sound it is not ideal, at all. this isn't a problem with sine wavs, square wavs, etc. there's less going on in the harmonics, there aren't formants, there isn't a transient. however, when there are all those things, pitching them on and on and on yields a mickey moused effect. read the lost art of sampling from SOS magazine, it's online for free.

simple example: stretchign a single C3 piano note up and down the scales will NOT sound as good as sampling every minor third and stretching the multisamples across the missing keys. try it! you'll hear why instantly.

The reason I'm asking is because if I need (example) a bagpipe kit and fine a few notes on a record, I doubt I'll find every note to make a perfect kit.


i'm afraid it's unlikely that anyone is going to be making INST pgms from what they find on record. you have to be very very lucky with the original sound (a plethora of long, drawn out notes). this is not the intention of INST pgms. INST pgms are intended to be made from multisamples from keyboards, synth, or real instruments - the odds that you'll find what you need to make a convincing INST pgm from record are very, very slim.

in your case, with the bagpipe, i suggest either using a VST or just chopping the samples you do find into a standard drum pgm. (all my chopped samples go straight to DRUM pgm, NOT inst pgm)

This may be good for some people, but it's way too much of a long process for me. 1000 ideas on what I could do to the beat would go by before I finish creating a single kit.


2 responses to that:

1st, building an inst pgm with 28 multisamples takes me all of 4 minutes, not including the 1 minute it requires to sample the 28 notes. from chopping it into 28 pieces, adjusting start/endpoints, dropping them into my preset 28 note INST pgm, specifying the original notes, and renaming the pgm takes 4 minutes (i timed myself). this is not a long time, and not at ALL unreasonable to expect from any user after some practice.

HOWEVER. even if it did take 10 minutes to make 1 multisample pgm, it does not matter. no disrespect, but you're going to have to change your mentality, there. no matter what the task is, be it chopping a sample, building a program, or sequencing drums, if you're gonna do it right it WILL take time. timestretching in previous model MPCs was a lengthy process. SAVING can be a lengthy process. there are thousands of "wasted seconds" that go by while making music - i'd go as far to say that more time i spent NOT making music than actually making music.

finally, my last addition is this: once you've created an inst pgm, you've got it for good. it's like a patch in reason - you can use it again and again to different effect in different songs if you like. for this reason, i've been a huge advocate of people making their inst pgms public.

check back here in about 4 hours, ok? i'll try and upload the kurzweil k2000 multisampled kits i've made. it's 29 INST pgms, mostly pianos and synths. this thing has a couple hundred patches, and i'm only on 29. but one by one i'm jacking them all.

but again, dont be timid about dumping time into building your pgms, drum or inst. you say "1000 ideas on what i could do to the beat would go by before i finish creating a single kit."

in all good humor (and for ME of all people to say this is shocking), perhaps you should cut back on the marjuana if you can't remember all the brilliant ideas you are having!

in all seriousness though from the perspective of someone who does make INST pgms--frequently--this doesn't seem like a legitimate issue. maybe it's because i don't typically stop in the middle of working on a beat to create an INST pgm. instead, often i'll just turn on the MPC in order to make INST pgms that i save and will browse/use in beats later. that way i don't have to pause. but there is something to be said about "clearing the ears."

peace

By roxstar Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:03 pm
I'm just saying there has to be an easier way, that's all Nym..No marijuana use included. I've heard MV8000 and MPC4000 users say that they can make a kit from one single sound before (without the chipmunk effect) and that's what I'm getting at. I have hundreds of Motif kits on DVD's that I can click, copy & paste into a soft sampler and play like it's the real thing, but I sure ain't gonna try to make a thousand kits on my MPC by extracting 28 samples from each kit and mapping them across the MPC's pads.. I used to create instrument programs on the XL doing the same method you described (this was wayy back when I wanted to push the MPC's limits) but now, I just wanna make music the easiest way possible which is why I'm looking to upgrade to the 4000/5000.
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By dasinsation Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:04 pm
This should be a PM but its nothing I am trying to hide. I am building INST programs using Sample-Robot of the E-MU PK-6. I am sampling 61 keys every 3 steps, so in an octave I am sampling c1, d#1, f#1, and a1. I dont have OS2 so I cant properly "make" the INST program officially by spreading it across the key-groups. So that being said I was wondering if I could send you a couple and you could make a INST program out of them and let me know if they sound decent? A so I do not feel like I am asking you to do the work for me I dont want the INST program back, because I am going to buy OS2 and create my own INST programs, I just wanna get my pads first. But you are free to share them if you want. Let me know and I can email a couple to you, samples are only 10.5MB per instrument.

By dtaa pla muk Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:17 pm
I've heard MV8000 and MPC4000 users say that they can make a kit from one single sound before (without the chipmunk effect) and that's what I'm getting at.


nah. by nature of using a single sound and spreading it across the entire key range, 0-127, you WILL have audibly mangled formants and harmonics. that's just the nature of what happens when you pitch one note up/down so so far. sure, you can DO it, but unless you are working with basic waveforms, there is a definitive, demonstratable and reproducable downgrade to the sound quality.

this is why multisampling exists - otherwise, everyone would only ever sample the middle C of any given instrument and be done with it.

but there is an easier way - download inst pgms that myself and other users provide, or just use vsts and external hardware instead. buying a 4000 or 5000 isn't going to make things any easier or faster, if anything there are more parameters to set so it could well slow you down

dasination, i'd be thrilled if you can send me some of those samples! please don't email them though, use yousendit or megaupload or any of those free filesending web sites.

By roxstar Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:08 pm
I just called a friend with the MV8000 who claims you can map a single sound without it sounding bad. I'm gonna try it out this weekend. He claims it works well on Bass sounds but bass doesn't contain any timbre...my XL's autochromatic sounded good on bass sounds. I'll be sure to load up a piano sample to see if he really knows what he's talking about.
Is there any software that you know of that can change a sample into a waveform? The Roland V-Synth GT can, but that's 3G's...

By dtaa pla muk Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:16 pm
it will def work ok on bass, but not something with a slap to it...avoid/trim off the transient and you will be pretty good to go. still not 100% ideal but i do it every time i synthesize
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By dasinsation Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:40 pm
Im posting it on the forum so if someone else wants to send you a multi-sampled batch they can reference here...... Where do I send it, I still have to have email address right when using Usendit? NYM it is evident you either did a lot of reading or you go school with a concentration on music because not too many producers know about formants/harmonics and other things that are not sonically noticeable throughout the frequency range of certain instruments. You are a engineer who creates music, I am too thats how I know! Haha