Hip hop producers don't know shit about music

Here's the thing, I usually hang out with people who continiously quote that thing: hip hop producers don't know anything at all about music, all they do is create a 4 bar loop out of someone else's music and call that music and song compiling. Hmmm, well, from one point view they are right. At least comparing that to rock bands who bust their arses to compile a whole 4 min song out of nothing.

But...Let's take things the opposite way. Hip hop producers make their music out of everything else. Which basically means that the more you listen to different genres, the more you can take out for your beats, right? A lot of us inside here have in their collections records from artists that 99,9% out there doesn't even know they ever existed, let aside to have heard their music. Which in turn means that a vast proportion of us actually know way more about music than anyone else in the music making world.

Also, a lot of artists from different genres have been ressurected or finally been discovered through rap songs. So, we' ve added more to this world than just a 4 bar loop.

But still, people regard us as toy mysicians. Isn't that ironic?

cosign

www.myspace.com/nathanielthegrublet

I think a true musician must be able to read music---and most hip hop producers don't know anything about that

DirtyBird wrote:I think a true musician must be able to read music---and most hip hop producers don't know anything about that

I think a *true* musician must just understand what good music is. And that's exactly what we are all doing. What's the point of knowing everything about music theory and still can't play a decent melody?

The greatest leaders in history didn't had a **** clue about politics or war. Still, they were extremely talented people with a pure heart and clear sense of what they were doing. The same goes for music and every other art.

A good music-dude is someone making good-quality music. Whether its sample-based or played melodies.

1987 wrote:A good music-dude is someone making good-quality music. Whether its sample-based or played melodies.

cosizzle

Lampdog wrote:

1987 wrote:A good music-dude is someone making good-quality music. Whether its sample-based or played melodies.

cosizzle

Nah, not quite. Hip-hop is easily my favorite genre... favorite to produce, but it requires no musical talent whatsoever. I'm a pro jazz musician -- know theory like no one else on this board, I could run circles on you; granted this doesn't make me a good hip-hop producer, but it certainly earns me far more respect than sampling will get you. See, being an actually musician is a cop-out for me. I can sample 20 seconds of a song, chop it up, and rearrange it an not feel guilty because I actually know the chords being played -- I know how to count the rhythms, I know that time signatures like 1/16 don't really exist outside of an MPC, I know that four beats in 4/4 isn't called a bar, it's called a measure. But no one here wants to hear any of that.

I guess you can apply the same idea to the knowledge of equipment in production -- %99.9 of the time, the dudes with crazy rack gear, every drum machine and all that... their beats whack as ****. But anyways -- sampling doesn't require musical knowledge, just an ear.

22 posts and you think you know more about theory than anyone on this board? Dunny, you don't know half the PEOPLE on this board. And I'm not saying that you don't know more than ME, I'm just saying you can't possibly know enough about this board to say you can run circles around anything, which indicates you probably think you know more than you really do on a lot of subjects. Music Theory included.

1987 wrote:A good music-dude is someone making good-quality music. Whether its sample-based or played melodies.

Lampdog wrote:cosizzle

Alistar wrote:Nah, not quite. But anyways -- just an ear.

THAT'S the same thing that was just pointed out. Good music is
good music whether is sample based OR played melodies.

Did you catch that part?

having a knowlegde of music theory will help you with sampled beats. ive been playing guitar for 8 years and studying music theory for 7. I kno wat chords are being played just hearing them ( I mite not kno the key but i will kno its the I or ii or V). It just helps knowin this stuff but by all means it is not needed. And its not cool to be cocky about knowin ish which aint wat im tryin to be im a humble dude. but anyway once you learn the basics of theory you can learn the rest by yourself by just playing and analysing yourself.

I know I respect sample-artists like Preem and Madlib, that's for sure.

eastcoast121 wrote:learn the rest by yourself by just playing and analysing yourself.

Yep. You can learn alot also just by practice and self help.

I know that four beats in 4/4 isn't called a bar, it's called a measure. But no one here wants to hear any of that.

from wikipedia:

In musical notation, a bar or measure is a segment of time defined as a given number of beats of a given duration. The word measure is heard more frequently in the U.S., while bar is used in other English-speaking countries, although musicians generally understand both usages

people can be creative with samples or creative with instruments.

people can be uncreative with samples or uncreative with instruments.

music theory can be useful tool to develop listening skills etc.

many amazing musicians didnt learn any theory, but would have recognized much we call "theory" intuitively .For the mere mortals however, a little theory can help,too much can stifle.

without listening skills and imagination, music theory is redundant.

e.g. hendrix: no formal theory/training, but an intuitive grasp of its principles and a phenomenal imagination. An imagination which would have done him well with any instrument guitar,piano,bagpipes,mpc, noseflute etc..
even with cover versions he was ridiculously creative( "all along the watchtower")

sampling loops with imagination can be like a good cover version:a valid contribution to our musical world.
sampling loops without can be like a bad cover version: an unfortunate contribution to our musical world.

although sampling loops is not all there is too sampling

sampling loops can be diverse
think of these three tracks:
"apache" incredible bongo band
"made you look" nas
" inner city life" goldie
notice the similarities?notice the difference?

remember though...sampling loops is not all there is too sampling


jazz is full of cover versions/"standards"
how many jazz tunes use the same basic buliding blocks 2,5,1's etc?
how many musicians are creative within these limits and how many are derivative?
moving your fingers is not all there is to music.

how many blues tunes use the same basic building blocks I7,IV7,V7 ?
how many musicians are creative within these limits and how many are derivative?
sticking to the rules is not all there is to music.

"there is nothing new under the sun"..<including that quote.


thank you.

^ troof

Jfalconcrest wrote:22 posts and you think you know more about theory than anyone on this board? Dunny, you don't know half the PEOPLE on this board. And I'm not saying that you don't know more than ME, I'm just saying you can't possibly know enough about this board to say you can run circles around anything, which indicates you probably think you know more than you really do on a lot of subjects. Music Theory included.

Post count on a board for Akai MPCs = my knowledge of music theory?

Just by half the crap I've been reading on these boards for the past year (didn't register until now), I am 100% confident that I know more about music theory than anyone else here. Not saying that people here can't make beats, I'm just saying they don't know what they're listening to. Maybe you and a couple others do... but cockiness works for me, so I'm gonna stick with it.