Hip hop producers don't know shit about music

Alistar wrote:Who the **** is Mingus?

too bad they didnt include him in your textbook...

Alistar wrote:
"The main part" -- you mean the chorus? Yeah, I'm sure your beats would trash mine. I mean at least learn the basics.

Man, how many time do we have have to say it? Get the **** out of here! Both you and your theory! **** retards who studied something for a couple of years and now they are trying to reinvent the wheel and call it a copyright. Who said we're asking for your opinion? Take all your books and stick em up in your ass. All the way up. And now leave us in peace to talk about beatmaking. Not music composing, not sound modelling or whatever you wann call it. Just BEATMAKING.

All I'm sayin is who is one person to knock another's method? Who is one person to ignorantly say they know more about something than anyone else here? Who is one person to say they are any better than anyone else?

Damn, this feels like a racism discussion fam. People heated, ignorant words flying everywhere, people trying to push their view on others...etc.

If someone approaches their music with theory and music history and all the "traditional" elements that's great, but by no means is that the only way to get things accomplished and come up with something that people enjoy.


Your process works for you and that's all that matters. Fawk what others may say.

Now errybody chill

Wow aside from this little **** fight going on right here....


People tend to focus too much on what went into a track rather than the actual track itself. If you sample something, and the finished beat comes out excellent, who gives a **** how you made it? It doesn't matter. All that matters is that you have a piece of art that you are proud of and can knock your head to.

I play in a rock band and I make beats. To an extent, producing entirely from sampling can take no music knowlege whatsoever. You essentially need to know what buttons to press. When you actually start creating melodies straight from your mind and imagination, then that's the music "knowlege" and expertise that people refer to.

*BUT*

I don't look at sampling as not making music, but just a different way of doing it. It doesn't mean that it's not making music, it's just a newer and different way of doing things.

people in hip-hop act like they don't need to learn any bit of it.

This is possibly the largest over-generalization I have read so far.

OK. I see it like this:

1. You have proven you are in fact the foremost authority on everything. (very well done)

2. You have gained no allies in this discussion, therefore congratulations.

3. I guarantee if you stand so admittedly on just this one issue, real issues in your life are completely in shambles (I'm guessing christian, republican, lower-middle class/customer service rep/blue collar wannabe... the list probably is quite long.

4. You have neither SHOWN nor PROVEN any of your knowledge.

5. You have not provided anyone a sample of YOUR music whatsoever.

6. You have a bad attitude towards music, and will probably rub most musicians the wrong way throughout your "music career".

7. Your point has been established. So what? Does that make hip-hop producers less relevant? Talented? Worthwhile? (does it make us scaaary that we are so free to create without being inside of a box someone named music?) - I make beats on my clipboard with the clamp and my bic pen, and no one can tell me I don't.

8. People like you are who people like US talk about as being "safe" "complacent" "programmed" "sheep" and even "uncreative" and "dull" at times. (anyone agree here?)

9. Winning a discussion is not possible, only a debate can be won, and you have proven your point, but not your argument.

10. You will notice (if you ever can grasp it) that people are here to learn, and ask advice, not to berate and condescend. Intelligent people never do that.

In your transparent attempt to look superior, you obviously have a serious issue with these ("bad stupid hip hop guys that don't know jack"), when in fact, this emotional rant you have been providing for us would tell me that deep down, you wish you could do what we do, but have not cognitively rationalized with that fact.

People like you need to always be running head on into shit you really don't fully understand, just to prove your superiority complex, when in most cases, you are doing this because your fear of failure (in your opposition's genre) or history of failure makes your ego press the issue.

you have pressed the issue, and 90% of the people in here disagreed, so accept the minority position as yours and own it, none of us care about your complex that much anyway buddy.

POST UP SOME MUSIC IN YOUR NEXT POST OR LEAVE (or a score you've recently composed in notation form)

fobedafied wrote:

Alistar wrote:Who the **** is Mingus?

too bad they didnt include him in your textbook...

Was a joke... I'm the one who brought him up in the first place.

Transplant Sims wrote:

people in hip-hop act like they don't need to learn any bit of it.

This is possibly the largest over-generalization I have read so far.

OK. I see it like this:

1. You have proven you are in fact the foremost authority on everything. (very well done)

2. You have gained no allies in this discussion, therefore congratulations.

3. I guarantee if you stand so admittedly on just this one issue, real issues in your life are completely in shambles (I'm guessing christian, republican, lower-middle class/customer service rep/blue collar wannabe... the list probably is quite long.

4. You have neither SHOWN nor PROVEN any of your knowledge.

5. You have not provided anyone a sample of YOUR music whatsoever.

6. You have a bad attitude towards music, and will probably rub most musicians the wrong way throughout your "music career".

7. Your point has been established. So what? Does that make hip-hop producers less relevant? Talented? Worthwhile? (does it make us scaaary that we are so free to create without being inside of a box someone named music?) - I make beats on my clipboard with the clamp and my bic pen, and no one can tell me I don't.

8. People like you are who people like US talk about as being "safe" "complacent" "programmed" "sheep" and even "uncreative" and "dull" at times. (anyone agree here?)

9. Winning a discussion is not possible, only a debate can be won, and you have proven your point, but not your argument.

10. You will notice (if you ever can grasp it) that people are here to learn, and ask advice, not to berate and condescend. Intelligent people never do that.

In your transparent attempt to look superior, you obviously have a serious issue with these ("bad stupid hip hop guys that don't know jack"), when in fact, this emotional rant you have been providing for us would tell me that deep down, you wish you could do what we do, but have not cognitively rationalized with that fact.

People like you need to always be running head on into **** you really don't fully understand, just to prove your superiority complex, when in most cases, you are doing this because your fear of failure (in your opposition's genre) or history of failure makes your ego press the issue.

you have pressed the issue, and 90% of the people in here disagreed, so accept the minority position as yours and own it, none of us care about your complex that much anyway buddy.

POST UP SOME MUSIC IN YOUR NEXT POST OR LEAVE (or a score you've recently composed in notation form)

I asked a while ago if someone wanted to battle in the Call-out thread.

Big ups to Transplant Sims.

Was a joke... I'm the one who brought him up in the first place.

The way you brought him into the disussion illustrates a lot though.

You assumed that your use of a tiny,tiny piece of music terminology was the only correct use, and used mingus to justify your view :
"If Mingus were still alive and you walked up to him and said "let me take a 24 bar solo" -- he would smack the **** outta you."

Even if mingus did think that..it would be the pettiest thing ive heard in a while...but lets see something which Mingus actually said:

"Fine Jazz is when a tenorman lifts his foot in the air.Great jazz is when he leaves a piercing note for 32 bars and collapses on his hands and knees."

I dont think music theory is useless by any means, Ive found it very useful myself....but it does seem that you hold even what you don't know in high regard! so why should we be impressed by what you say you do know!...


no hard feelings man.

http://www.wikihow.com/Lose-an-Argument-Gracefully





I

in this music genre which we call Hip Hop, theoretical skills don't count.

that's bullshyt

lol this thread still alive? Yo post up some music already damn. All the technical knowledge in the world means d*ck if your music sucks. Another thing....why do musicians need other musicians to reassure them of their talent or knowledge of music? The listener is the judge of what is good or not and they could give a f*ck less of how many years you went to school and studied...Cant believe this thread...no disrespect to anyone on this forum but if yall think I depend on other "producers" to evaluate if I am a "true" musician or not you are buggin. When I got clients in the studio looking to buy beats and everybody is noddin their heads THAT is my proof. Cmon now. Go make some beats or something...or write a score...lololol

[quote="poundaproblem"]l All the technical knowledge in the world means d*ck if your music sucks.[quote]
I agree with that

I also agree that knowledge doesn't mean shit if your music isn't any good. But to anyone that has said that you need no theoretical knowledge to be a good musician... I mean reeaaaaaaaalllly? That just sounds like a cop-out. "I don't have the dedication to study up on what I wanna do professionally, so I'll make up an excuse as to why I don't have to."

And I dooooooo wanna battle someone -- no one's responded in the Call-out thread, though.

I agree slightly with both points of views however one fact is that it is not required to know how to read/write music in order to be a great musician. Thats kind of like saying the written music came before the raw talent of someone creating it. Does it help to know of course, especially if your doing work for hire. But in my 10+ years of recording I have worked with all kinds of musicians from grundge to gospel and the dispute was never who was better technically but what sounded better once recorded. I think we keep missing the point that the end result is what is important. How you got there doesnt really matter. But again that is NOT saying that you dont NEED to know how to read music. Ive gotten singers, violinists, bassists and tons of other musicians to come down to add things to both my music and clients music. How do I communicate what i want done...through humming, playing out parts of what I would like or any other way to convey my message. Would it have helped to have it written...hell yea but at the end of the day the recording gets done. I dont think this is something that can be won or lost because if you have genuine talent you can make it happen, and no I dont mean just finding a dope loop and a drum line. It should be a litter deeper than that.

I agree. But here's something: why is it that some people on these boards keep complaining about how much they hate when people loops samples instead of chopping them beyond recognition. Example: Kanye only chops a few times in each of his beats -- that shit sounds hot most of the time. And those people are the ones saying "if it sounds good, it's good" yet they also say "it's cheap to loop samples like that" -- that's hypocrisy at it's finest. Kinda off topic, but it was something I've noticed a LOT.