tips for creating a keygroup program for drums?

i d like to know whats the best way to create a big keygroup prg. for real sounding drums (with many velocity switches as possible)

i have a huge samplelibrary from NI Battery, DFH etc.... and want to transfer these samples/kits into the mpc.

most of the PC drumkits have more than 10 (up to 20-30) velocity-samples for each instrument....

i think a keygroup prg. instead of a drum prg. is the better choice, isn`t it?

a step by step guide would be nice, also a template?

thx for your answers

dreadnutz wrote:i d like to know whats the best way to create a big keygroup prg. for real sounding drums (with many velocity switches as possible)

i have a huge samplelibrary from NI Battery, DFH etc.... and want to transfer these samples/kits into the mpc.

most of the PC drumkits have more than 10 (up to 20-30) velocity-samples for each instrument....

i think a keygroup prg. instead of a drum prg. is the better choice, isn`t it?

a step by step guide would be nice, also a template?

thx for your answers

Really you can use a drum program just as well the main difference between the two basic programs is that a drum program is naturally step up to have several drum hits each on one key as a keyspan aka one pitched note. Whereas a keygroup is set up to have one to a few sounds spread over several keyspans at various pitches. Plus a drum program allows the individual keys to have an individual output in the mixer page and the keygroup doesn`t allow from the mixer page but you can still set it up as individual keygroups in the Program mix page. Keep it simple battery is a drum sampler set up the same way as the 4k.

Now of course in battery you can layer up to I believe it is 99 samples per cell the equal of a note in drum programs in 4k but the 4k is set up for 4 sounds per note. To work around this why don`t you just layer your programs using INTA or B virtual midi ports and set the different programs to the same midi channel just make sure their sounds have the same pad layout of sounds. Then you just go in and dial in the zone velocity settings.

Of course you could do all of this in keygroups too but it means you have to keep up all the individual keygroups too. The drum programs is done automatically.


On the real why transfer all your sounds in when you you can just use the 4k as a midi controller and battery as a sound module. All well it is up to you.


P.S. if you know how to set up the velocity assign in battery it is similar to the 4k easily. Just you have a limit per note or keygroup in the 4k to 4 sounds.

i did what dread wants to do w/the the smaller kits from battery. i have few kits that i did w/keygroups because they were 10-16 layers deep. i found the keygroups method a little less labor intensive, and seemed a little more organized to me at the time for the larger kits. for the smaller kits, i just used the drum prog.

i did it because i'm a lot more comfortable working w/the mpc than i am with battery. i get my tweaks done a lot faster in the mpc than i do in battery. also, i was having a lot of problems w/the my computer over last couple of months. so it was great to fire up the mpc, load those drums in, and jam... instead of being upset that i have all these sounds on my stupid computer that i have no access to.

the only real peace of advise i can give is to load little by little, and do a lot of saving. say if a snare has 10 layers... then load those 10 samples only. assign, save, then move on to the next sound. some of file names are long, and the mpc likes to rename them. i had problems w/that in the past because i couldn't recognize what was what after loading in an entire kit, and half the stuff has a different name. -big mess.

Blue Haze wrote:
P.S. if you know how to set up the velocity assign in battery it is similar to the 4k easily. Just you have a limit per note or keygroup in the 4k to 4 sounds.

don't forget that you can stack the keygroups. you can have several keygroups asigned to the same note number. while blue is correct to say that you can only have 4 notes per keygroup, you can still build kits that are 8,16,32, etc. layers deep inside the mpc.

say you want your kick to be on pad 1 in bank A. you can assign as many keygroups as you want to this one pad to accomodate your sample layers.

thx haze & blue!

i did it because i'm a lot more comfortable working w/the mpc than i am with battery. i get my tweaks done a lot faster in the mpc than i do in battery. also, i was having a lot of problems w/the my computer over last couple of months. so it was great to fire up the mpc, load those drums in, and jam

WORD!
exacty the same reason for me to stay inside the mpc. next point for me is the timing... how could i benefit from the knifesharp timing of the mpc when everything goes over midi and audiocard latency...

don't forget that you can stack the keygroups. you can have several keygroups asigned to the same note number. while blue is correct to say that you can only have 4 notes per keygroup, you can still build kits that are 8,16,32, etc. layers deep inside the mpc.

thats my missing point!!! didnt know that i could assign more than one kg to a note....

i think i`ll stay in keygroups progs and do it like blue suggested.

one question about the levels of the diff. zones: do u set the louder drum hits to the same level as the softer ones? and whats your settings?
or all the same level?

def use keygroups.
if u do this "To work around this why don`t you just layer your programs using INTA or B" you will have problems as the mpc offsets different programs by very small amounts i,e, you want to keep all your kicks within one program otherwise there will be slight timing differences and although they are constant its still a pain for drums.

to here what I am saying put the same program on inta and intb there a very short delay between the two.
definetly want to avoid that 4 drums.

g

dreadnutz wrote:
one question about the levels of the diff. zones: do u set the louder drum hits to the same level as the softer ones? and whats your settings?
or all the same level?

i just followed the velocity window in battery. if a certain sample only triggers when the velocity is between 120-127... then i set the sample to be triggered when the velocity is 120-127 in the mpc, and so on. i don't touch the levels.

i just cranked up the mpc, and loaded a kit i made a while back while trying to figure this stuff out. here are the pics i took a second ago:

this first pic shows that there are several keygroups assigned to the same note number:


here you can see that i didn't change any of the levels:


the next few pics shows how i set up the velocity, across several keygroups:





and that's basically how you do it. create a keygoup, set the note number, assign samples to the zones, and set the velocity. then create a new keygroup, and repeat. just make sure the "full level" button is switched off so you can hear what you doing. ;p

Whatever works for your music it is all good. Each have his or her`s preference as long as it works for them. Whether midi to software or hardware it is works according to the producer. Bang out some hits. Personally I just record or drag my 4k sequence into Logic when I use battery 3 drums but hey that is me. I do have kits I layer over the each program whether within my 4k or sending midi out to a sound module along with my esx but I hardly layer more than 3 frequencies at the most.

Anyway your problem is solve k.i.s.s works for me for a full sampler without drum programs is just a keygroup program with a single keyspan whether I use ex24, triton, motif, ultrabeat, or Korg legacy all mapped out chromatically.

Don`t forget to go to program matrix and assign source velocity>>>destination>>Select sample with the keygroup set to all. Along with the velocity switching set up to velocity in the zone page.

seriously tho... i wish i was as comfortable as others are w/software, because i've seen how people can just fly on software. but i'm not... i've always used an mpc. so i'm comfortable, and happy with it. mpc is my native language

plus, i always felt it was a waste to not use the mpc's sampler. my 4k was my dream come true. even tho it's under utilized in my set up for the most part. i still force my self to use the sampler to keep up level of experience, and sometimes to keep things fresh. sure it's a lot of work to build big kits in the mpc... but i need the practice, and experience. i also want to make sure that no matter what happens to my computer, i can always make music w/my hardware.

worse case scenario, if there's another big earthquake in los angeles, i couldn't care less about saving my PC... if i'm ever lucky enough to own a laptop, guess what? to hell w/that too. i'm putting the 4k under my arm, and i'm getting the hell out.

I get you. Yes sometimes I sample walls, buckets, tables, and all kinds of odd sounds to built my own customized drums with my portable recorder and tweak on the 4k the way it was before all of the software explosion. I just enjoy the both of each world now.

Well here is a old post we had on keygroups a while, while back. It may help check out Threshed post on setups.

http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php ... ight=zones

very usefull tips!

i am in love with the 4k... i really dont understand why some guys diz the beast...
i have owned so many gear over the years (whole mpc series expect 3k, emu, ensoniq etc...) but i must say its
a producers dream... and so far (with some little bugs/crashes) i am very very happy.

yesterday i played a 4bar loop (dub style) with many keyprgs, fx, qlink pitching+filtering etc... for nearly 2 hours without getting bored.... nice

i think i will sold a lot of my other gear (fusion, mpc60, emu sampler, proteus... and even some synthies) cause the 4k handles all this stuff in one box... without messing arround with recording, midicables...



next idea in my brain is a one pad chord...

for example if i press pad 1 it plays a c major chord...
you only have to assing the pad to 3 keygroup programms of the same instruments (each of the prgs. has its own tune settings: 0 +3 +5)
u can also mess around with sample start points of the different prgs for a more real sounding chord etc. etc. etc.

best part of the 4k are the routing possibilities, kind of a modular system...

what do u think?

Routing ideas http://mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2 ... ilit=Racks