Master of Disappointment

DaFunkDocta2004 wrote:Everyone's making great points here! The home studio, in my opinion, can't be the last stage for a complete song. The professional studios have engineers with experience, vocal booths of varying coloring to vocals, room for live instruments, back-up singers, etc. But, the home studio is where all of the ideas and creative juice should be able to flow freely with no pressure of the pay-clock!

Exactly. Get it to the best u can at home in ur PRE-PRODUCTION studio, then take it to a studio and have someone mix and master, it is good to know what ur doing in those fields, but a professional will make ur music sound bangin. Especially with the gear they are using compared to urs.

binger0 wrote:

DaFunkDocta2004 wrote:Everyone's making great points here! The home studio, in my opinion, can't be the last stage for a complete song. The professional studios have engineers with experience, vocal booths of varying coloring to vocals, room for live instruments, back-up singers, etc. But, the home studio is where all of the ideas and creative juice should be able to flow freely with no pressure of the pay-clock!

Exactly. Get it to the best u can at home in ur PRE-PRODUCTION studio, then take it to a studio and have someone mix and master, it is good to know what ur doing in those fields, but a professional will make ur music sound bangin. Especially with the gear they are using compared to urs.

Yessir...I think one thing the home studio can't supply on-demand are that Other Set of Ears. I can't STAND it when I've knocked something out I feel is banging and can't find A SOUL to listen to it!! Feel me gentlemen?

mwalker wrote:ok, there is a art to mastering but the way things are going with technology allot of individuals are doing there production and post production in there home studio. just like how individual are learning to write and record music at their home studio the next logical step is to learn to master in your home studio. just my opinion. to be a musician in this time and age you must be proactive and if you are reactive your game is over. i am at the point where i want to do everthing write, producer, mix, master and do the art work on my cd case. total control of my product. this where the music business is heading.

mwalker i totally agree. everyone is in do it yourself mode and i think its dope. i like to save 2 copies of my finished beat. mix one myself just to learn, then bring one to the studio. my engineers product is always better than mine but thats how you develop your ears and your knowledge. you cant learn if you dont do.

DaFunkDocta2004 wrote:

binger0 wrote:

DaFunkDocta2004 wrote:Everyone's making great points here! The home studio, in my opinion, can't be the last stage for a complete song. The professional studios have engineers with experience, vocal booths of varying coloring to vocals, room for live instruments, back-up singers, etc. But, the home studio is where all of the ideas and creative juice should be able to flow freely with no pressure of the pay-clock!

Exactly. Get it to the best u can at home in ur PRE-PRODUCTION studio, then take it to a studio and have someone mix and master, it is good to know what ur doing in those fields, but a professional will make ur music sound bangin. Especially with the gear they are using compared to urs.

Yessir...I think one thing the home studio can't supply on-demand are that Other Set of Ears. I can't STAND it when I've knocked something out I feel is banging and can't find A SOUL to listen to it!! Feel me gentlemen?

good point. thats another reason why i choose my engineer over my mix in the end. when i do a track. i listen to it several times. then mixed, listen several times, by the time its mastered i dont even want to hear it anymore haha. another set of ears will percieve it a bit differently and less biased

sensewondah wrote:

DaFunkDocta2004 wrote:

binger0 wrote:

DaFunkDocta2004 wrote:Everyone's making great points here! The home studio, in my opinion, can't be the last stage for a complete song. The professional studios have engineers with experience, vocal booths of varying coloring to vocals, room for live instruments, back-up singers, etc. But, the home studio is where all of the ideas and creative juice should be able to flow freely with no pressure of the pay-clock!

Exactly. Get it to the best u can at home in ur PRE-PRODUCTION studio, then take it to a studio and have someone mix and master, it is good to know what ur doing in those fields, but a professional will make ur music sound bangin. Especially with the gear they are using compared to urs.

Yessir...I think one thing the home studio can't supply on-demand are that Other Set of Ears. I can't STAND it when I've knocked something out I feel is banging and can't find A SOUL to listen to it!! Feel me gentlemen?

good point. thats another reason why i choose my engineer over my mix in the end. when i do a track. i listen to it several times. then mixed, listen several times, by the time its mastered i dont even want to hear it anymore haha. another set of ears will percieve it a bit differently and less biased

Amen to that...it's very easy to fall in love with your own ears and then get pissed at your people when they don't react to it the way you expected, lol...

I have no beef with vocals and live instruments because I fully understand the importance of enviroment, mic placement, and mic quality; however, I'm concerned about just the instrumentals, the beat. It's understandable that not everyone will like my beat instrumental but what if I like it, do you think I need to hand my production over to a pro?

Take Black Moon's first album; I always hated that album for its lack of crispness and trebles; nonetheless, they liked it and oddly I am fond of its muddy sound, it gives it individuality; I appreciate that. Do I need some one else's ear when I like my own sound? Maybe I want it to sound like how it sounds, don't you think it's OK if I don't hand over to a pro?

Forking over dough to a pro who forked over dough to have a high grade professional enviroment to record vocals and live instruments is no problem to me. What I want to know is just that very last mix we call the finished Master; can't it be done without a snoody engineer's input and still have my greatest desires? (banging bass, ear-popping high hats, and unmuddled and easily perceived instruments all in a hiss-less mix)

^^^^^^^
Yes. To answer your question. If, however, you know what you're doing.

Producers pay me to mix hip-hop because they like the finished product, not because I'm "snoody". The really tallented engineers that I respect and have had the pleasure of meeting here in LA, generaly tend to be some very humble dudes who share knowledge and tips freely.

word.

mwalker wrote:ok, there is a art to mastering but the way things are going with technology allot of individuals are doing there production and post production in there home studio. just like how individual are learning to write and record music at their home studio the next logical step is to learn to master in your home studio. just my opinion. to be a musician in this time and age you must be proactive and if you are reactive your game is over. i am at the point where i want to do everthing write, producer, mix, master and do the art work on my cd case. total control of my product. this where the music business is heading.

ARE YOU A PRODUCER/MUSICIAN or a MASTERING ENGINEER ?
take a pick cause if you want to do it all somethings gotta give. spend all your time learning to master - you still wont come close to someone who has the ability. Just cause you got the uniform and all the tools does not make you the expert nor does it mean that you will be ! How many people out there sing & sound like SH#T they practice get lessons and still sound like SH#T , how much time are you willing to spend fu#$ing against the grain?

DOnt mean to sound negative, all Im saying is spend more time on your good skills so you can improve! we cant always be good at everything. We can try but we still need people that are specialists out there to help - thats what they are there for. God put them here god gave them their talents.

Oh well at the end of the day just make good sounding music & dont be afraid to ask for help, rather than do it all yourself just because you can buy the equipment!

yo fi real mwalker u got a point its defo becoming more about a cottage industry.

BUT, recognise that it has a knock on effect thoughout the whole industry.

"What I want to know is just that very last mix we call the finished Master; can't it be done without a snoody engineer's input and still have my greatest desires? (banging bass, ear-popping high hats, and unmuddled and easily perceived instruments all in a hiss-less mix) "

well yes and no but people dont charge $1000 to mix 1 track for nuttin

Just because somebody has all the tools to do a job doesn't mean they have the ability, skill, experience, education to do it correctly. Mastering is something that's learned over time, trained properly, and has certain guidelines in regards to sonic quality that have to be followed. Mixing down to a two track master is not the mastering, its' the beginning of that mastering stage. Mastering is done to acheive a tonal balance of the music, frequencies, vocals, and to assure the recording's quality and overall volume is compatible and as equal to every CD in the store, something that you don't just do at home. It's done in a proper mixing environment, with someone who's trained to hear the sonic imperfections and correct them. Certainly you can purchase all the tools to do mastering at home, but is your mixing room proper for it? Is it acoustically correct? How about speaker placement? How about all the other factors involved? Mastering engineers don't change the feel of your music or your artistic vision, they increase the impact of your music and it's compatibility with the average joe's stereo so they can hear your vision in full sonic greatness doggy.

first of all i am a musician that has played drums since five, play guitar (not no jimmy hendrix but ...) for about 7 years and piano for about 15 years. so, the music thing i have pretty much down. i have been doing the midi thing (started with r5 drum machine) for about 17 years. i have own wavelab and effects vst plugins for about 8 years. so, i am at the point where i could or think i could do it all. yes, i would think that paying an engineer a $1000 to master my recording would sound better but when i give out a demo i want everyone who listens to know that i did it all. from turning on my equiment, song writing, arrangement, mixing, mastering to turning my equiment off. now, a month ago there was a thread about what equiment individuals hads in there studio and the list of equiment was pretty weak. so, my feeling is if you cant afford equiment for your own home studio why spend a $1000 on a engineer to master your recording. point being if your home studio equiment is lacking (really) how much can a pro engineer do for you? not much.

therefore, i have been writing, making, playing music for years and i have made professional recordings (aleast 10 albums and countless demo) so i have a feel of what I WANT MY MUSIC TO SOUND LIKE. no, i am not a professional engineer but i can achive a quailty finished product just using my laptop and software (no hardware).

so, if you can afford a pro engineer go for it but most cant afford it. just look at the home studio equiment thread and see for yourself.

so, the alternative is what? DO IT YOURSELF. GOT IT.

I'm definitely a big proponent of the home studio, for everything except mastering. At my spot in Brooklyn, we got a real simple hookup - 4 by 4 vocal booth, Pro Tools HD3, real bare bones, but we still get a great sound and final product. Even more importantly, many artists appreciate being able to come just chill in a cool loft and thus the vibe we get influences the quality of the output. We recorded and mixed the 5 songs on the upcoming Nina Sky album here that Cipha and I produced here start to finish. We can pretty much do anything here necessary except live drums (which we don't really use anyway) - for live guitar and bass, I just plug in a DI and use Amplitube on Pro Tools - sounds great. I honestly think an SSL board adds a haze which I don't personally like (some do). However, when it comes to mastering, nothing beats an amazing set of ears, amazing monitors, and a $20,000 mastering EQ and compressor.

Oh yea, and with practice and the right ears you can become a great engineer. I personally don't like other people engineering my sessions. I never had formal mix training, just taught myself.

mwalker wrote:first of all i am a musician that has played drums since five, play guitar (not no jimmy hendrix but ...) for about 7 years and piano for about 15 years. so, the music thing i have pretty much down. i have been doing the midi thing (started with r5 drum machine) for about 17 years. i have own wavelab and effects vst plugins for about 8 years. so, i am at the point where i could or think i could do it all. yes, i would think that paying an engineer a $1000 to master my recording would sound better but when i give out a demo i want everyone who listens to know that i did it all. from turning on my equiment, song writing, arrangement, mixing, mastering to turning my equiment off. now, a month ago there was a thread about what equiment individuals hads in there studio and the list of equiment was pretty weak. so, my feeling is if you cant afford equiment for your own home studio why spend a $1000 on a engineer to master your recording. point being if your home studio equiment is lacking (really) how much can a pro engineer do for you? not much.

therefore, i have been writing, making, playing music for years and i have made professional recordings (aleast 10 albums and countless demo) so i have a feel of what I WANT MY MUSIC TO SOUND LIKE. no, i am not a professional engineer but i can achive a quailty finished product just using my laptop and software (no hardware).

so, if you can afford a pro engineer go for it but most cant afford it. just look at the home studio equiment thread and see for yourself.

so, the alternative is what? DO IT YOURSELF. GOT IT.

Well, I don't really think anyone has to pay anyone to get someone's two cents. You could have a veteran DJ as a good friend you can just sit back and review your mixes with on a chill Sunday, feel me? I remember ?uestlove talking about Pete Rock's weekly visits to him to sit back and review the tracks he did that week. It could be as simple as that. Another set of ears is vital to me just to expand one's perspective on their art.