How much would you pay JJ for a MPC500 OS?

why? if it's a bug in their system, there's every reason to blame them.
if your car malfunctioned while you were driving it safely, whose fault would that be?
firestone recalled a ton of tires that had a design flaw back in '02 or '03 -- their fault.
should firestone have just told folks to backup their tires?

similarly, if this bug was fixed by another programmer, eliminating the bug => eliminating the corruption........!!!

Nym, you know I agree with you. But now that the bug is well known, why do people keep shooting themselves in the foot? And then going: "Oh, **** the Akai, I've lost the beat!". The majority of them don't even bother to open the manual or read "Beat making on MPC...". That's what I mean. When I loose a beat after saving (Akaipro forbid!), I won't blame anyone but myself for that. I'd recommend everyone here to adopt this attitude. It would make life and beat-making much easier, I guess.

PS: I don't think that to compare tyres and computers/software is a right thing to do. They are too different to be compared. Anyway, if an MPC user thinks their machine is buggy, they can always return it to seller and get a replacement or a refund.

well sir, i have to say i disagree with your leniency and quickness to accept the blame for another man's problem. with all amicability.

the bug is only well known after a user experiences it and comes here to search out the problem. the bug is only well known to those in the know, so to say. a first-buying mpc500 user does not know about this bug, even if he/she reads the manual.

regarding reading the manual: this is not going to help a user avoid a bug. in fact, the manual is a bug treasure map. the manual never tells you not to save over preexisting files (directory error) or not to create new folders after working on beats (new folder freeze).

re: tire comparison: it doesn't go further than this: the product functions don't behave as advertised. damage is possible due to a design flaw. result: expense of end user. fault: manufacturer.

perhaps a better comparison would be getting mugged in a "bad part of town." is it your fault for being mugged just for walking through that bad part of town, even though it SHOULD be the most direct and efficient way home? not at all. after you experience it, you might learn to take an alternate, safer route, but it's still NOT your fault for getting mugged the first time.

The "mugged in the bad part of town" example doesn't seem good either. Why? Because: a) you know it is a BAD part of town; b) you know there's a probability of being mugged; c) nevertheless, you prefer to make this shortcut. If you get mugged in the "bad part of town", it's noone's fault but yours. The police say: Don't wander in the unlit streets! Don't speak to strangers! Don't do this, don't do that! But still people keep getting in trouble. That's because they are not cautious enough. Prevention is probably the best way to avoid troubles.

Tell me, if a computer user catches a malware and it sends away their banking and personal data, then he or she gets robbed by a bunch of hackers from a distant country. Who's fault is it? Bill Gates'? Hackers? Or is it this particular user's fault, they being too naive and simple minded and having not enough knowledge and caution to prevent sensitive data leaks from their own PC?

I don't see the difference between an MPC user who looses their beat and such a reckless PC user who gets their money stolen by hackers.

I agree that reading the manual only doesn't provide a user with enough info about bugs. Ok, but that doesn't mean the manual is useless and could be ignored. It's just the first step on the way to mastering MPC. Then there are MPC-Forums and MPC-Tutor's books where there are warnings about bugs.

you miss the point. like i said, a new user doesn't know it's a bad part of town.
this is a complicated bug/complex city map. it's quite difficult to avoid trouble spots.

like i said:

the bug is only well known after a user experiences it and comes here to search out the problem. the bug is only well known to those in the know, so to say. a first-buying mpc500 user does not know about this bug, even if he/she reads the manual.

not cautious enough? BS. one shouldn't have to be cautious about advertised functions -- even wild, out there concepts like "SAVING PROJECTS"

how, how HOW is saving "reckless?"

CROSSFIRE, SEEK COVER! .
Yes the machine is buggy, and yes it's your own fault if you loose a beat when you know that tis machine HAVES bugs. But that doesn't make it OK for Akai just to **** shit **** on the costumers. .

But hey, the update is on its way!!

Nym, I don't miss any points. If it is a part of town that a person has never been to (and hence is not familiar with, whether it's bad or good), being cautious is quite a natural thing for them to do. And expect unexpected things to happen, too.

As for the user, who is unaware of the saving bug: It is up to them to either keep being not informed, or make an effort and do some research before they start doing something serious and really worth saving. After that, believe me, no saving bug can affect whatever they might do. Well, even if they loose a beat or two in the learning process. No pain - no gain, you know After all, it's them who are pressing "Do It". It's better to know what could happen and be prepared.

And people, if you loose a beat, don't put all the blame on Akai, ok? Of course, it is bad indeed that there are bugs which cause data losses. Of course, they should fix them and I hope it happens in the near future.

"driver's fault"

b, you have admittedly not had experience with these bugs.
you're speaking from a position of inexperience to folks who know the symptoms and effects of this bug inside and out (as well as a dozen other akai bugs, as well as hundreds of other bugs in multiple programs). that's a point you need to keep in mind.

there is no way to "Be cautious" when first saving a beat.
does "save entire memory" look safer than "save all pgms and samples?"
does "create new folder" seem safer before or after you've made your beat?

there's no logic to how to be "Cautious" when you're first saving.
if the manual documented the bug and offered a safe alternative, that'd be one thing
if Tutor's book documents the bug and offered a safe alternative, that'd be great for those that buy it
if YOU created a PDF and got it stickied at the top of this forum, that'd be a third.

also - another of many pieces of this saving issue that folks don't know about:

if you've ever once gotten a DIRECTORY ERROR, had a new folder freeze, or experienced corrupted saved work, you need to back up your work to a PC and reformat your drive, then drag and drop it all back onto the drive.

the above errors don't just screw with the stuff you are trying to save, it will mess with other unrelated stuff on the disk. the only way around this is to avoid the errors completely (don't save over same projects, create new folders either in USB mode OR before you start the project, always save entire memory to blank space)

again: have the error 1 time? back up and reformat, then avoid the error. IT SPREADS. this is one of the reason even folks who save "correctly" still experience corruption.

it's the very worst to be working on a crummy beat, save it over a previous copy of itself, get an error, and then a month later find out that the corruption spread to other folders in your hard drive.

this is why in jjos you're supposed to back up everything, format the drive, and THEN you can save the way it's advertised out of the box/described in the manual. if no format, you still get errors. a similar (if detourous) technique can be used in the akai os

http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/important.htm

Well, I may be wrong, Nym, but I think that when people experience this bug when saving their work for the first time, it's more likely that they actually loose nothing precious. I mean, if you've just bought MPC, you won't expect your first beat to be the top of the pops, so to speak, will you? Ok, that might seem cynical but still.

And I am sure that after getting to know the MPC and its features, after using it for, say, half a year, it is quite unusual not to know the bugs and not be aware of certain consequences of triggering them. You know, an MPC user can say he/she wasn't aware of the saving bug only if he/she's been living in an isolated island with no internet connection available for the past couple of years

All right, I'd recommend another workaround for saving-bug-troubled minds. Do all people know that it is possible to save sequences as a Standard MIDI File (SMF)? Well, it is actually. So, as we know, the saving bug **** up sequences, not programs and samples. Ok, the wise thing to do before saving an entire memory in a new folder (which can possibly lead to loosing data), will be saving your sequence as a MIDI file. As far as I understand from Da Manual and other independent sources, an SMF file merges all MIDI data from the sequence to one track (I am not sure about that, though, I have to check it out). Hence, it would be a good idea to make a copy of a sequence and then save each track of it one by one as MIDI file (by deleting all tracks but one, saving a MIDI file, then creating a new copy of sequence, deleting all tracks but one... and so on). It could be tedious, yes, but you won't loose MIDI info (which is actually what matters most, when saving) if a saving bug screws everything up. And there's one advantage to this technique. After exporting all parts of the sequence as MIDI files, you can then import them into any DAW or MIDI sequencing hardware for further editing!!!

good workaround on the saving midi files
IMO that should be saved as an unused default in addition to all prj files/samples

when people experience this bug when saving their work for the first time, it's more likely that they actually loose nothing precious.

this is true, but remember that the bug spreads
get a directory error/new folder freeze/wrong file message ONE TIME and you risk ruining other files on your drive

so even if it's just your first crappy beat, due akai os's bug, you run the risk of having your future beats damaged "in utero"

It's pretty pathetic that anybody on here (regardless of who they work for, really) would try to project Akai's responsibility on the file corruption issues onto users.

Akai was informed of these basic file system issues long before the 500 was even released. It is a fact that the problem can be isolated and fixed. I have yet to hear any official or even unofficial admission from Akai that the flaw even exists.

Since Akai has not informed or taken any positive action, the task of breaking the bad news to the new users who come here desperately trying to recover lost work has fallen on MPC forum members. More than a few times the informing party has been me (check the archive) and every single instance involved the loss of valuable work. If they didn't care about the stuff they were saving why would so many of them bother coming on the forum and freaking out over it?

To anybody who hopes -- after all this BS and sketchy blame shifting -- that Akai is gong to come clean, show some glimmer of competence and fix this problem with the next official OS update, all I can say is...

good luck with that one.....

$50.00 usd.

Nym, I agree on the spreading issue completely.

elektrik_muz wrote:It's pretty pathetic that anybody on here (regardless of who they work for, really) would try to project Akai's responsibility on the file corruption issues onto users.

Nobody projects saving bug responsibility on MPC users. But users shall be taking care of their valuable work as well, not only rely on MPC's features. And that means they must: a) learn their machine inside out (and experiencing bugs is the part of the process, if you ask me, because if you are unaware of the saving bug, I'd say you don't know your MPC well enough); b) back up every piece of data they care about on a regular basis; c) have a positive attitude, if a data loss takes place, and try to make a better beat, instead of ranting about how many bugs there are in MPC, how poor is the customer service, how rare are the OS updates and so on (you know, ranting and cursing Akai won't solve the problem).

i know this is an old post but damn. this is an intermitant problem "bug". it cannot be totally avoided. the odds are that with all precaution it will happen. brazeca, maybe i can put this in a way you can understand. if a banks account software glitches. and you lose everything in your account. are you going to look to the bank for a fix to your money issues? or are you just going to say "oh well, I should have gone with another bank and I would have been safe."? the fact is that you put your money in an account at a financial institution to safe gaurd it. and they screwed up with it. and you will want them to reimburse you for your losses. every beat or song that gets made on these machines is a potential gold mine. and some people work in crazy ways that make some music almost un duplicatable. lose it and its gone. this is an akai product, that is advertised with a feature set. and people purchase it for the feature set that is listed with it. if the features clearly cause you to lose your work. and dont operate as advertised. then you are clearly not getting what you payed for. if akai refuses to deal with these "known" bugs. well then that just shows you what they think about the customer.