How to get that BIG sound?

cool edit can do just a good sound editing job as any other software based wave editor.

you just gotta practice. dont get me wrong. im farrrr from pro on mixing. my boy is really dope and so is this kid he knows, both use cool edit. both have a really full sound. i use cool edit too and my sound definately isnt as refined. its more technique than tools.

KoolSha178 wrote:

CueBiz wrote:I have a question in regards to mixing down hip hop beats. I was wondering how I can get the big surround sound feel on my samples and drums. For example when I listen to Outkast or A Tribe Called Quest in my headphones or car I feel like the music is surrounding me. It sounds REAL BIG. How can I get this effect?
I use an MPC to make beats and I use Cool Edit to mix.

you can do it. just try.

compress it, pan it. send your drum beat to a bus, create an aux
input and bus your drums to the input. make the aux input look
at the output of your original drums. This becomes your secret
weapon. Now you have to two tracks of drums. mix the two
tracks so the second is underneath the original. It gives it a bigger
feel. Note: whatever plug in you have on the original, put on the
aux input, but in bypass, due to latency issues.

To answer the first question on how to achieve a BIG sound

The answer is the mix, the engineers job just isnt to turn a bunch of knobs, its up to his creativity to place you in the proper enviroment for the song

Things like mastering become less important the better your mix is, I've heard tracks shipped off to mastering engineers that sound worst before they touch it (prob because they had to much of an ego to just use a compressor to even it out with the rest of the songs and call it a day)

The enviroment depends on the song, you can get clues by just listening carefully, notice how ballads(slow songs) tend to be more drenched (hearable) in reverb/delay, then your hiphop or faster songs tend to have a transparent verb maybe, can't really hear it, but it gives a feel that its there

I think of each song as a story when I sit down and mix, you have to feed off the vibe, aggressive songs require aggressive mixing to bring it out, a street song will be mixed street, clubs clubs, etc etc, if a person is telling a story inside a car, I want it to sound like your sitting next to that person in a car

A way to look at it moreso than directions what to do

When someone says Big, Larger than Life, Etc

Typically they mean give it characteristics, that really arent natural, like the radio songs your used to hearing, Snares have been processed in EQ/Compression(anything else), so people are bored with natural sounds, cause those arent the Larger than Life sounds they are used to hearing

Another way to look at that

plus all those Tribe records are analog...ie on tape, and tape, and vinyl just have a phatter sound than digital stuff

CueBiz wrote:Professor cool site, thanks

Dos, you might be right. I do mix with headphones and when I pan sounds sometimes I feel its too far right or left.

I guess I just have to experiment with different effects and mixing techniques. Im gonna read some of the tutorials.

Just try listening to your favourite tracks on the same headphones and really analyse where everything is in the mix. If you listen to enough tracks on them you'll get used to hearing stuff hard left and right and it won't seem so wierd.

Peace

Forest Parks wrote:plus all those Tribe records are analog...ie on tape, and tape, and vinyl just have a phatter sound than digital stuff

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
word, definitely. if only 2" wasnt so expensive.
ya dig?

Ok,


There are qa few suggestions which aren't 100% acurrate. . .

Firstly recording to analog tape aint gonna make your mixes sound bigger whether you use an old cassette machine or 2 inch.

Same with compression etc.
Most importantly as someone else said earlier, you need to get good sounding source material. If recording yourself manke sure your mic is of a reasonable quality (ditto for the rest of the recording chain). You can pick up pretty decent mics for around 100-200£/$. If sampling from other sources vinyl / cd etc take a listen to the samples next to a production froma producer you like, is it as high fidelity? Good sounding top / bottom end etc? If not get rid cos your track will always sound crap if you are using crap source material. This is why musicians spend so long in recording studios recording, it's all about getting the best sound possible.

Other tips that may help you get a fat sound are making sure that the low end is coming just from the kick n bass. Everything else you can take a little (like 2-5 db's with softly sloping shelf) from about 100-150hz and below.

Second. Check the instrumentation, make sure that everything grooves. Start with the kick n bass, do they work together? Check the drums on their own, then with the bass. Check the Lead sounds, pads etc etc. Much of the time the arrangement / instrumentation on tracks is what gives it a 'big' sound. Well chosen sounds that compliment rather than fight with each other are gonna get you much of the way there.

Third. Check your panning. Move stuff right round the stereo field (bar Kick n bass obv). Also check things like auto pan, get it on the beat, or intime so it's running on divisions of the beat, stuck some of the background sounds through there. With your delays adjust them so that one side of the delay is a couple of milliseconds before and the other a couple after. Also try stereo delays with different divisions on the left and right, say 2/4 on one side and 4/4 on the other. Also if using mono delays having them slightly forward or back can help. I.e. instead of running at .456 of a second try .452 or .458. Can change the feel slightly.
Another cool tip is to place a phaser afer the delay output. Get the Lfo cycling in time and make sure it's not too wet, gives a bit more movement. N.b. this is also cool if you stick a filter at the start of the chain and get tweaking

Cheers
TS

CueBiz wrote:I was wondering if there is a certain effect I can use to put on my samples that will make it sound more full. I know nothing compares to mastering, but some of my mixed beats sound thin.

if your usin cool edit pro, use the parametric eq.

TWINSTATES wrote:Ok,


There are qa few suggestions which aren't 100% acurrate. . .

Firstly recording to analog tape aint gonna make your mixes sound bigger whether you use an old cassette machine or 2 inch.

Same with compression etc.
Most importantly as someone else said earlier, you need to get good sounding source material. If recording yourself manke sure your mic is of a reasonable quality (ditto for the rest of the recording chain). You can pick up pretty decent mics for around 100-200£/$. If sampling from other sources vinyl / cd etc take a listen to the samples next to a production froma producer you like, is it as high fidelity? Good sounding top / bottom end etc? If not get rid cos your track will always sound **** if you are using **** source material. This is why musicians spend so long in recording studios recording, it's all about getting the best sound possible.

Other tips that may help you get a fat sound are making sure that the low end is coming just from the kick n bass. Everything else you can take a little (like 2-5 db's with softly sloping shelf) from about 100-150hz and below.

Second. Check the instrumentation, make sure that everything grooves. Start with the kick n bass, do they work together? Check the drums on their own, then with the bass. Check the Lead sounds, pads etc etc. Much of the time the arrangement / instrumentation on tracks is what gives it a 'big' sound. Well chosen sounds that compliment rather than fight with each other are gonna get you much of the way there.

Third. Check your panning. Move stuff right round the stereo field (bar Kick n bass obv). Also check things like auto pan, get it on the beat, or intime so it's running on divisions of the beat, stuck some of the background sounds through there. With your delays adjust them so that one side of the delay is a couple of milliseconds before and the other a couple after. Also try stereo delays with different divisions on the left and right, say 2/4 on one side and 4/4 on the other. Also if using mono delays having them slightly forward or back can help. I.e. instead of running at .456 of a second try .452 or .458. Can change the feel slightly.
Another cool tip is to place a phaser afer the delay output. Get the Lfo cycling in time and make sure it's not too wet, gives a bit more movement. N.b. this is also cool if you stick a filter at the start of the chain and get tweaking

Cheers
TS

I'm willin to bet dat analog is a bigger, fuller, warmer sound than digital.
Have you recorded to tape, and digitally and played them back?

CueBiz wrote:Professor cool site, thanks

Dos, you might be right. I do mix with headphones and when I pan sounds sometimes I feel its too far right or left.

I guess I just have to experiment with different effects and mixing techniques. Im gonna read some of the tutorials.

i think you gotta stop mixing with headphones.

1. your ears are your most precious tool so don't f*** em up by blasting them with your headphones. Headphones are also a very bad reference as they do not have a "flat" frequency response. They tend to raise the bass and the highs and cut the middle, this results in your mix sounding thick and tight in the headphones, but thin and weak on regular speakers.

2. Get a decent pair of monitors. beleive me it will change your whole sound, providing you take the time to know how they sound.

3. A fat sound is also a matter of giving space for each sound in your mix.
I get a fat sound and use mainly subtractive eq, with slight boosts on certain key frequency, particularly in the low end. the key to it is experiment. take a look at all the posts on here cause I definately learn't a shit load on this forum.

Keep producing...

See ya

deaf-mute is on point...subtractive is always better than boosting eqs.....monitors are essential (why havent i got any yet then? must do!) and dont use headphones....

i recently destroyed a mix by using headphones to tweak late at night...the next day i heard it through my speakers and was like 'wtf?' so i redid the mix without headphones (as it was earlier and my neighbours were still up) and the next day the mix was find both outside and with headphones...

greg

I'm willin to bet dat analog is a bigger, fuller, warmer sound than digital.
Have you recorded to tape, and digitally and played them back?

I've worked with both 2" and digital. In the early days of digital (16bit/44.1), it was hard, but not impossible, to achieve the wide open sound of 2" analog tape. Most problems rested on the AD/DA convertors...Most DATs sounded bad.

But, the tables have turned...After many A/B test, I found the sound of 24bit digital to have the adequate headroom to have mixes with the same depth of 2" analog. Have you noticed the number of high-end studios no longer using analog?

Most importantly, your ears are the most important and valuable pieces of equipment you'll ever use....No matter what format you record/mix to. Roger Nichols is a living testament...Most consider Donald Fagen's "Nightfly" to be one the best recorded and mixed albums ever...Roger Nichols recorded/mixed that album using early/1st generation Mitsubishi 12-bit digital recorders.

In short, you can achieve a great mix on any format (analog or digital...You can do the opposite as well). Also, study other mixes in your mix enviroment so that you can gauge the sound of your room AND to train your ears to your idea of a good mix. Lastly, stop mixing using your headphones.

And by the way, most hip hop today is recorded using a digital format.

45/Vaughan

mpire45 wrote:

I'm willin to bet dat analog is a bigger, fuller, warmer sound than digital.
Have you recorded to tape, and digitally and played them back?

I've worked with both 2" and digital. In the early days of digital (16bit/44.1), it was hard, but not impossible, to achieve the wide open sound of 2" analog tape. Most problems rested on the AD/DA convertors...Most DATs sounded bad.

But, the tables have turned...After many A/B test, I found the sound of 24bit digital to have the adequate headroom to have mixes with the same depth of 2" analog. Have you noticed the number of high-end studios no longer using analog?

Most importantly, your ears are the most important and valuable pieces of equipment you'll ever use....No matter what format you record/mix to. Roger Nichols is a living testament...Most consider Donald Fagen's "Nightfly" to be one the best recorded and mixed albums ever...Roger Nichols recorded/mixed that album using early/1st generation Mitsubishi 12-bit digital recorders.

In short, you can achieve a great mix on any format (analog or digital...You can do the opposite as well). Also, study other mixes in your mix enviroment so that you can gauge the sound of your room AND to train your ears to your idea of a good mix. Lastly, stop mixing using your headphones.

And by the way, most hip hop today is recorded using a digital format.

45/Vaughan

you right, most studios are digital, analog is more of a niche thing. There are still engineers/producers that insist on analog is better, including me.
digital is cheaper and the editing is much more efficient, I think that is
the main reason most are going digital. Thats why people buy analog
sound plug ins.

When going by sound tape always wins. When going by convinience and cost, digital wins, but when people compare the sound, they tend to compare the most expensive digital with the average old tape studio. Few Studio use brand new tape machines, they have their old standbys from way back. Not that they are bad, but you have age to degrade the capacitors.

It's like vinyl, records have advanced a lot in the last 20 years, so have turntables and needles, but people tend to go by old crusty records and old tables.