WTF does this have to do with music??

"quit ya crying. no one owes you $hit. time means nothing. 8 yrs? please...I been at it since about 92-93
34? u sound more like 14"

I bet your music sounds like schit! So yes, you've been doing if for twice as long, but if it sounds wack, then I can completely understand why you don't expect to get paid for it. When you turn your machine on and listen to your own music and think, "I need to raise Pit Bulls" then I can COMPLETELY understand where your coming from. Raise them dogs homeboy and leave the music to people that really want to do this. If you think I sound like I'm 14 because I want to make this my living, then you really sound like a disgruntled kid.
"I make music because I enjoy doing it...I DJ parties cuz I enjoy doing it...not for some check
I got a gig for that."
You do it for free because no one wants to pay you for your services. I don't know ANY dj that packs up their turntables, records, cd's gets in a car/truck (gas is $4/gallon), sets the equipment up, rocks a crowd, and doesn't get paid for it. Ok, I can understand a few times to get yourself known, but if you've been doing it for years, then maybe it's time you learn a few tricks to wow the crowd. No more "throw your hands in the air, and party like you just don't care!" Time to up them skills kid! And as a producer/Dj, I know you play your own music....so you play your own stuff and people don't return to hear more?? If they do return, the idea of "charging at the door" never once occurred to you?? Funk it, keep doing it for free, that means love right?? HAHA
You may not realize it, but your screaming "WACKNESS" without saying a word!
Keep talking, your ignorance always amuses me!

All Im saying is fcuk a freebie. You recording in my lab, I'm charging, I'm making you a track, I'm charging if I am doing anything that requiries me providing a service I am charging. I decided years ago that freebies dont cut it. Plus the cost to be a rapper is a lot less than anyone on the other side of it. All they need is a pen and pad while producers and engineers need THOUSANDS of dollars. If a rapper think for a second that I put all this money up to let him rock for free he's buggin. As far as the love for it.....I could give a fcuk less when people question my love for it. My music shows my passion for it but my pockets arent gonna be skinny because of it. I dont know about yall but I got kids to feed. If I'm going to be in the lab for 8 hours and away from them you DEFINATELY paying me if not.....f*ckouttahea!

fobedafied wrote:what a shame jaem doesnt breed pits for "the love"...

I'd do it if offered no money at all. I'd breed pits all day and give them to infants and little girls. Why? cause I got love for them...thats how I roll...thats how I do.

Forget that this breeder I know is making more many off one litter than most people make in a year 'round here. I love my dawgs and love it when they love each other. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. That feeling is all I needed since 1992. **** a check. I need love like LL, and at night I stare at the wall, in the back of my mind I hear my conscience call.....

roxstar wrote:I bet your music sounds like schit! So yes, you've been doing if for twice as long, but if it sounds wack, then I can completely understand why you don't expect to get paid for it.

You do it for free because no one wants to pay you for your services.

You may not realize it, but your screaming "WACKNESS" without saying a word!
Keep talking, your ignorance always amuses me!

look here lil man....
u really don't know me, and i'm not on here for that purpose, but if this is a microcosm of your attitude in general I can see why you are still struggling at 34

I never said I did parties for free...but $400+ a month doesn't exactly pay my bills

And when I do gigs where I need to supply equipment, I don't bring my own I have a local store I rent from (to anyone in Chicago, Erik and Sammy @ Midwest are the best and I would recommend them above any other provider), I add 20% on top of the cost from Midwest Stereo and bill the customer, but again that still doesn't touch what I make at my 9-5, not to mention it takes away from time I can be producing or doing other things I enjoy doing in my free time (poker, taking care of my dogs, XBOX, getting head)

to me DJing a BBQ for $100 on someone else's decks is "for the love", a one hour set at a small venue for a decent bar credit is "for the love"

FWIW I've won battles and been on national TV 2x, performed with artists with indy label releases, ran countless tracking sessions and am regularly in NYC where I get nothing but love for my music...

I know producers with gold records on their wall and I see the respect they don't get and how much they are severely underpaid for their efforts and it makes me totally not want to market music I poured my heart and soul into, for what? $500/1000 a track? Thats peanuts to me.

music isn't about a check, its about capturing an emotion.....for me its something i do in my free time and it makes me some small disposable income

"if this is a microcosm of your attitude in general I can see why you are still struggling at 34"

Who said I was struggling?? Now your just talking just to talk...

"music isn't about a check, its about capturing an emotion"

True, I can definitely agree with that, but if your music captures peoples emotion, then it's time to capitalize off it. My thing is the beats. I feel good about what I do and I recieve a lot of appreciation from other peope about it, so yes, I want to see some money. Now recording is a different thing. I hate my recordings, and wouldn't recommend it. If someone really wants to lay vocals, I'll do it for free because (1) it's practice for me, and (2) I wouldn't feel right charging for it. Poundaproblem is obviously better on the recoding tip than me, so he DESERVES to see some $$$ if his services are requested. My big problem is I'm being requested by dudes with no money. I'm very recognized by some very recognizable producers in Detroit, but they ain't trying to buy my beats when they make beats. At the same time, their not going to recommend their clients to me; that's money out their pockets, that's why I decided to seek the help from an Entertainment attorney. She charged me $55 for half an hour. Money has to come from somewhere.
That's all I'm gonna say about this. I'm done. But to all of you reading, don't ever let anyone tell you to do anything "for the love" of it. If you listen to you competition and you honestly feel like your better (In anything that you do) then you deserve to get paid for it. Wanting to see a check after dedicating years of your life to something does not mean you don't love what you do.

poundaproblem wrote:All Im saying is fcuk a freebie. You recording in my lab, I'm charging, I'm making you a track, I'm charging if I am doing anything that requiries me providing a service I am charging. I decided years ago that freebies dont cut it. Plus the cost to be a rapper is a lot less than anyone on the other side of it. All they need is a pen and pad while producers and engineers need THOUSANDS of dollars. If a rapper think for a second that I put all this money up to let him rock for free he's buggin. As far as the love for it.....I could give a fcuk less when people question my love for it. My music shows my passion for it but my pockets arent gonna be skinny because of it. I dont know about yall but I got kids to feed. If I'm going to be in the lab for 8 hours and away from them you DEFINATELY paying me if not.....f*ckouttahea!

I agree definitetly wit this... Damn, you hit me deep with this one.... all the more reason to make cats understand you wanna play, you gotta pay


I hate I missed all the unfoldings of this thread today... this has been a very good thread today, its been some very good post made, but I can really relate more to Roxstar, just as I can a lil with Jaem.

Been around the industry, as a musician first, then as a producer second.... and still see cats suffer and get hurt, but that still doesnt turn my hunger for the grind of Production away. I still luv it and wanna get bigger checks from it. Who wouldnt. If I can keep making about at last $500 a week from production and/or studio time, why would I go get a 9 to 5 again, doing something thats not me. I make my own schedule, i make my own music(most of the time, except for the peeps that want the same $hit, which is even easier), The benefits arent there, but I can get those tomorrow by signing up with the Union or this Insurance company. Plenty of opportunities are available for those that wanna get out there and grind and make it happen on your own. Roxstar, keep going hard for what you want homie, you gone get yours one day.... just as you are Jaem, and Poundaproblem, and everyone else. Just dont fall short, cause you get where you fall at. Its someone out there going harder then you, always... Like Diddy said, while you sleeping and dreaming, someone else is awoke and grinding trying to take your place. A lot of peeps wonder why you see these so called "whack cats" getting on. Believe it or not, they are out there hustlin their music harder then you are hustlin yours. A friend of mine pointed that out to me one day. A lot of cats, sitting at home with talent, in the studio grinding, wondering, how did the lame get on... Cause that lame recorded some $hit, got his or her a$$ out the yo, and went around so the peeps could hear it. But im getting into some more stuff.... but look all im saying it, yall keep going hard, for those that wanna get money, it can happen, take it 1 day at a time. Thats all you can do, is take it 1 day at a time.

Im sorry, but id rather make a 808 beat all day in a few seconds, with a synth, the note repeat button, and a couple of yea's in it, then go to work and hear someone elses BS, and then work on my own real music.

Steve Albini's breakdown of income for musicians signed to a major.....

Advance: $ 250,000
Manager's cut: $ 37,500
Legal fees: $ 10,000
Recording Budget: $ 150,000
Producer's advance: $ 50,000
Studio fee: $ 52,500
Drum Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $ 3,000
Recording tape: $ 8,000
Equipment rental: $ 5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $ 5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $ 10,000
Catering: $ 3,000
Mastering: $ 10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc. expenses: $ 2,000
Video budget: $ 30,000
Cameras: $ 8,000
Crew: $ 5,000
Processing and transfers: $ 3,000
Off-line: $ 2,000
On-line editing: $ 3,000
Catering: $ 1,000
Stage and construction: $ 3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $ 2,000
Director's fee: $ 3,000
Album Artwork: $ 5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $ 2,000
Band fund: $ 15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $ 5,000
New fancy professional guitars [2]: $ 3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs [2]: $ 4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $ 1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $ 1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $ 500
Big blowout party for their friends: $ 500
Tour expense [5 weeks]: $ 50,875
Bus: $ 25,000
Crew [3]: $ 7,500
Food and per diems: $ 7,875
Fuel: $ 3,000
Consumable supplies: $ 3,500
Wardrobe: $ 1,000
Promotion: $ 3,000
Tour gross income: $ 50,000
Agent's cut: $ 7,500
Manager's cut: $ 7,500
Merchandising advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Publishing advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 =
$3,000,000
Gross retail revenue Royalty: [13% of 90% of retail]:
$ 351,000
Less advance: $ 250,000
Producer's points: [3% less $50,000 advance]:
$ 40,000
Promotional budget: $ 25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $ 50,000
Net royalty: $ -14,000
Record company income:

Record wholesale price: $6.50 x 250,000 =
$1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $ 351,000
Deficit from royalties: $ 14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution: @ $2.20 per record: $ 550,000
Gross profit: $ 7l0,000
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.

Record company: $ 710,000
Producer: $ 90,000
Manager: $ 51,000
Studio: $ 52,500
Previous label: $ 50,000
Agent: $ 7,500
Lawyer: $ 12,000
Band member net income each: $4031.25

source: http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

jaem wrote:Steve Albini's breakdown of income for musicians signed to a major.....

Did you also forget to mention... at the top of the page where it says "This oft-referenced article is from the early '90s, and originally appeared in Maximum Rock 'n' Roll magazine. While some of the information and figures listed here are dated, it is still a useful and informative article. And no, we don't know how to reach Steve Albini."

Which i was just about to say, technology and recording life has changed a lot in the last 10 years homie... especially with hip hop and rap... certain factors you can add end and take out of that now.... but however, we do have to now consider that fact of Internet downloading, cd burning, and bootlegging as well.... the game has changed in a lot of ways. Whenever we think we are helping the economy, we are also hurting in a way as well it seems.

Nice find though Jaem.

exactly.....the industry is even more grim now

so you could probably divide that $4k by a factor of 2-4

that means $1-2k profit on an album

I make more than that in a good week....have fun trying to make money in this industry

jaem wrote:exactly.....the industry is even more grim now

so you could probably divide that $4k by a factor of 2-4

that means $1-2k profit on an album

I make more than that in a good week....have fun trying to make money in this industry

Well, i wouldnt say that exactly as well, you still got like at least 10 new factors you would have to throw into that, where as you can make more or less... it all depends on how the artist is doing the recording these days...

not really.....its based on sales and last I checked music stores are closing left and right, ppl don't want to pay for music....that doesnt mean more $$$ for the artist, it means less, much less

Music Stores are closing... yeaaaaa.... but more independents are popping up, finding newer ways to sale music(iTunes, etc...)... which is cutting out the middle man as well. Not only that, production of music videos are way cheaper these days especially with High Definition being cheaper and better then film, not only that, but people are doing them in house now. Majors however are still raping their artist, but the independents are eating better, you might not know they name as much as you do the majors, but best believe their people are eating just as good, if not better.

4dahaterz wrote:Music Stores are closing... yeaaaaa.... but more independents are popping up, finding newer ways to sale music(iTunes, etc...)... which is cutting out the middle man as well. Not only that, production of music videos are way cheaper these days especially with High Definition being cheaper and better then film, not only that, but people are doing them in house now. Majors however are still raping their artist, but the independents are eating better, you might not know they name as much as you do the majors, but best believe their people are eating just as good, if not better.

not sure where you're getting your info, but its very incorrect

the actual market size of people paying for music is shrinking, the losses are being slightly recovered with digital distribution, but not by much. The real place to make money right no is in ringtones...and if you not on a major you not selling these

jaem wrote:

4dahaterz wrote:Music Stores are closing... yeaaaaa.... but more independents are popping up, finding newer ways to sale music(iTunes, etc...)... which is cutting out the middle man as well. Not only that, production of music videos are way cheaper these days especially with High Definition being cheaper and better then film, not only that, but people are doing them in house now. Majors however are still raping their artist, but the independents are eating better, you might not know they name as much as you do the majors, but best believe their people are eating just as good, if not better.

not sure where you're getting your info, but its very incorrect

the actual market size of people paying for music is shrinking, the losses are being slightly recovered with digital distribution, but not by much. The real place to make money right no is in ringtones...and if you not on a major you not selling these

wait... how am I incorrect, when i just stated the obvious above "you still got like at least 10 new factors you would have to throw into that"... your facts above from the outdated source was very invalid in todays music, my statements are following up to your statements that you are following with, such as music stores closing. The statement again about at least 10 new factors can be very broad, but im not about to get into all of that cause we would be bickering on here all day. By the way, artist are making some money off ringtones, but it all comes back to performing and touring, thats where they eventually will see most of their money.

Being Independent is definitely the way to go. Record stores are closing which isn't good for people like us, but there are a lot of guys making music that are living off this, and don't have video's on MTV or ringtones to download. Waajeed, Karriem Riggins, Kev Brown, Madlib, Stacey Epps, and many many others are eating off the music they create. The best thing about big labels going down is that independent artists can finally get recognized, the bad thing about it is that we all use the same procedure to advertise; the internet, so now the consumer has to fish through 100,000,000,000 indy artists (usually on myspace.)
Selling 10,000 albums would be GREAT for any of us, and this is a very realistic number to attain. We can all sell this amount with the equipment we currently own without the help of anyone else. Promoting, marketing and Branding is the next thing we all need to learn. Without this, there will always be a billion dope producers/Mc chillin' in the basement without getting the right exposure, but learning how to do this takes lots of time and money, especially if you don't know what your doing. For the most part, we are all just making a bunch of noise. It's fun to make music, but it's work to sell it.
There are all kinds of ways now available for the common producer/mc to market their product, but we have to think five years ahead of the game that to simply run with the game. If we all spam Myspace comments, this will do nothing. If we all text message everyone with our shows, no one will read them, and if we all record youtube vids acting like clowns, smoking and showcasing wack music, no on is really going to listen. Somehow, an original concept of marketing has to emerge...something that isn't easily duplicated or more than the average person is willing to do. Just like Soulja Boy fooled people on the internet to get on, I bet 1 gazillion other wannbee rappers have done the same thing unsuccessfully. His method was original, but too simple to duplicate.
Once we can figure this magical marketing technique, I really believe independent music will blow the F*&k up. Just the fact that an individual can be themselves, no more fakery, you can release teh music YOU want people to hear..no one breathing down your back to rush the release of an album, and no more crap contracts. Music will finally be real again.
I'm looking forward to it. I hate commercial music anyways!