Akai MPC 5000 vs Ableton Live 7

Wow there is a lot of info you folks have provided to my original question. I already have Ableton LIve 7 and an MPD32. I guess I am too old cause I can't figure it out. I live recording with loops in Live but I cannot figure out doing beats or anything else. I am considering purchasing the MPC 5K to compliment the Ableton. Oh did I mention I also use Logic Pro? I assume the 5K will interface nicely with Logic? Then I am considering purchasing the Numark DMC with cue 5.0 to do some mixing? I am way over the top with this music stuff and I am old, like 57. Am I too old to be doing this?

[email protected] wrote:Wow there is a lot of info you folks have provided to my original question. I already have Ableton LIve 7 and an MPD32. I guess I am too old cause I can't figure it out. I live recording with loops in Live but I cannot figure out doing beats or anything else. I am considering purchasing the MPC 5K to compliment the Ableton. Oh did I mention I also use Logic Pro? I assume the 5K will interface nicely with Logic? Then I am considering purchasing the Numark DMC with cue 5.0 to do some mixing? I am way over the top with this music stuff and I am old, like 57. Am I too old to be doing this?

read the ableton tutorials. look at the live! lesson packs. they're amazing at explaining sequencing...and how to do it in ableton. they r pre-made songs/projects, and the lessons will tell u how they made the songs going through EVERY feature in live in the simple most possible way.

believe me, mpc's are simple, but u still will need some time to figure out their sequencer. its easy, but still takes a certain amount required to learn any decent piece of kit/software.

as u hav ableton, lemme giv u some tips:

first of all. the 'session view' is the first screen lives open. if u press 'tab' button u can see the 'arrange' screen.

session screen = sketchpad - this is what makes ableton unique, u can make ur own loops and sketch out a song by creating 'clips', i.e track 1 = drums, u may hav a clip of just kick drums going for one bar, clip 2 maybe a full 16 bar drum loop with complicated drum patters, track 2 = bass, again u may hav loads of clips with different bass melodies, maybe cos ur unsure of what u r going to use in ur song, or maybe because u r gonna have different melodies coming in at different times. again 'session' screen is all about sketching out idea.

arrange screen = sequencer - this is where ur song is created and edited. this is where u will eventually automate ur effects, etc. this is also similar to the sort of screen u will see in logic/cubase/any sequencer.. once u hav a song's worth of clips in the session screen, simply press the record button and start triggering ur clips in the order u want u sequence to go. everything u trigger will record in the arrange scrren. this is an amazing benefit, as in cubase/logic and most other software, u hav to do everything starting in the sequencer, but in ableton u can create ur sequence on the fly by triggering clips in the order of your song. its much more creative, and its more efficient as u r not just copying and pasting loops in a sequence, u r recording ur sequence on the fly.

the way i do things is essentially as described, but will usually make some rough clips, i.e some basic drums on track 1, a bass melody, a lead melody, and some other sounds, maybe an audio track with some samples. then i will trigger a basic sequence. and then do all editing from then onwards in the arrange screen. the benefit of this is that i have created the structure of a song much quicker than if i was just to straight sequence.

if u double click on a clip - the bottom of the screen = clip properties, eg bar length of clip, pitch, sample warping, etc
if u double click on the top of the track where it says 'track 1' - plugin and devices = if u drag a synth into track 1 then u can access its parameters by double clicking top of track 1 and it will appear at bottom of screen.

u can even dj in the 'session' screen. ableton automatically timestretches every piece of audio u drag into it.

how to do an mpc style production:

load an audio file into an audio track in 'session screen'. it will load the whole song into a clip. double-click on the clip, and make a loop by moving the loop indicator. make sure it says 'loop' in clip properties. then right click on the clip in 'session screen' and select 'slice'. then choose how much u want to cut the sample - i.e 1 bar sample, cut into 1/4 to get 4 equal slices. using the 1 bar example just mentioned, what ableton does next is cuts the sample into 4 pieces, putting each piece on a separate track, these tracks are then grouped together into one midi track. if u were to arm the midi track, then ur mpd32 will b ready to play each individual slice. if u start recording a clip on this new grouped midi track, u can hav a session playing on the pads and re-arranging the order of the samples, just like on an mpc, however, u r not restriced to any amount of bars when recording a clip in 'session' screen. so u can play away until uve created the perfect arrangement with ur slices (this is something an mpc cant do as such, as u would need to set the length of ur loop and play over that length). my timing isnt perfect, so its really useful being able to jam without any limits...i can mess up, stop the recording of the clip, and then just rearrange what i have recorded. this is the basics of sampling on an mpc - u would record the audio first, loop the relevant section, slice it, then record ur own arrangement using the pads in a 'sequence'. a clip in ableton is just like a 'sequence' on an mpc.

in fact there are similarities between ableton and an mpc's workflow, unlike other software apps. on a mpc u create as many sequences as u like. then the ones u want u arrange in an order in 'song mode'. on an ableton u do the same on the sketchpad screen (session screen). u create as many sequences (clips/loops) as u like in ableton, and then record them in order in the equivalent song screen (arrangement/sequencer). obviously with ableton, u can add as many effects/eqs/compressers to each track.

as u hav an mpd 32, u can use this as a control surface. for production this is a must. simply go to preferences, go to the midi section. under control surfaces drop down menu, select ur akai mpd 32 in the list. u may need to check ur mpd32 manual to check what u put under input and output. for my bcr2000, i select the bcr as my control surface, the input is the bcr 2000, as is the output. then u need to make sure in the section below, that the 'remote' button is selected for the input and output of ur device. using ur device as a control surface, u essentially wont ever have to manually map a midi control. when u click on a plugin, a blue hand appears on that plugin, which is advising u it can b controlled. then ur 8 rotary knobs will b automatically assigned to the first 8 parameters of that plugin (be it a synth, an effect, etc.). if ur controller is good enough (im sure the mpd 32 definitely is), u can page through banksparameters, in order to make use of the next 8 controlls. actually on the mpd, u just select the next bank of controls and then wiv give u access to the next amount of parameters for that plugin. again u r not mapping anything, ableton automaps it for u. ur faders on the mpd will automatically control volume, and the transport control will control play, stop, loop and record. in theory, u r barely touching ur mouse and keyboard to make beats. with my bcr2000, i hav it setup so i dont touch the mouse and keyboard for anything. this again makes ableton feel more like an instrument itself, like an mpc does, rather than a piece of software.

if u do want to map ur own controls manually, piece of piss. click on the midi button in the top right of the screen. this turns all mappable parameters on the screen blue. click on the one u want to control, move a control of ur mpd, and thats it, its setup to control that parameter.

hope this helps getting u setup. the mpd32 looks like a great controller, u might as well see how it works with ableton properly and get ableton before spending lots of money on something else that is very similar. an mpc is unique in its sequencer appearance, sound and certainly timing. but its also restricted in what u can do. so ups and downs. as there is with anything. im a bit of an ableton gaylord these days...i just think its implemented some seriously forward-thinking ideas that have never been done in a sequencer package.

ive clearly got too much time on my hands.....

just to warn u, other than a usb port which is used for saving files or transfering things to the mpc itslef, the mpc has no optimisation on any software. u can sync it with software, so u can record and master ur tracks. for this, i would recommend logic over ableton, as for mastering stuff logic is amazing. if u r getting started in production, stick to an mpc only, or learn ableton. logic is very in-depth and complicated compared to ableton. that has its advantages and disadvantages. but for workflow, efficiently both an mpc or ableton r ur best options (from my experience anyway).

u r never too old to make music.

Thanks folks for the great in-depth tutorial on Ableton. I know this is an MPC 5K forum but I have to say thanks, you folks really enlighten me. I have so much to learn. I appreciate the having fun part. You folks are great. I am ready to learn the MPC side as well as Logic and Ableton. I know it is a lot but I am so excited, I just keep buying more stuff.

Please keep the lessons coming. I am old but I am slow. Wait, I mean I am old but I am learning.

i have both Live 7 & MPC 5000

I enjoy both

The MPC allow me to do my beat quickest than ableton & they sound wayyyy better on the MPC.

Live allow me to record, mix & add effets.

Both rocks

tomazzzi wrote:i have both Live 7 & MPC 5000

I enjoy both

The MPC allow me to do my beat quickest than ableton & they sound wayyyy better on the MPC.



Both rocks

that is because your mpc has a better sound output then your computer

Ok here is my question then about the sound. If I use the MPC and play it through an Apogee Ensemble into my software, Ableton Live and Logic Pro will it sound even better?

[email protected] wrote:Ok here is my question then about the sound. If I use the MPC and play it through an Apogee Ensemble into my software, Ableton Live and Logic Pro will it sound even better?

depends on what you think better is. it will definately allow you to alter the sound of your mpc projects with digital effects and features. you might be able to use some compressors, parametric eq type stuff and etc... to get a different sound, and maybe it will sound better.

it will change the sound. but if you mean sound quality in terms of bits, well your mpc probably only has 16bits, and your apogee is probably 24. the bottle neck is stuck at 16, and that is IF your original samples aren't lower.

Please note that most hardware synths/drum machines/workstations are 16 bit....most of the latest interfaces/AD converters are 24 bit.

Hi to all of you guys, is very nice to have forums like this one.

well I would like to say a couple of stuff based in my experience producing well first i Would like to say that to take the decicion betwen an mpc5000 and ableton live really depends in some factors

first wich kind of producer you are, what kind of music are you producing and how you play that music live.

wich kind of producer i mean are you a musician and composer based mostly on real instruments or virtual ones lets say virtual synths and fxpansion bfd or real guitars and recording on multitrack etc etc and some sampling from records

o are you based in sample records mostly and some live playing?? do you prefer drumm machine feel or real pads playing feel to make it swing?

why this because if you like to laydown your own groove you have 2 options, to make a multisampling program on the mpc with lets say 3 different bass drumms 3 snares etc to have some variation and so on with the other hits for drums etc

option 2 : if you really are interested in a more expresive sound you may choose a bfd because it comes with many expansion kits with great sounding drumm kits even you can choose how far the micro is from each kit piece, how much room you want etc this if you want to made some sound design to have your own signature drumm kits other advantage is that you could have some rare and hard to find drumm kits that you wont find easy a vintage vistalite used for john bonham of led zeppelin for example.

if you are using libraries for mpc i think bfd is better but there is the other part if you like the vinyl sound and you produce hip hop you wont mind to have all this features because the sound of an existing record is what you are looking for, also:


why to differentiate a hip hop producer from other style?, just because the styles of music has very different ways of producing, example:

if you produce hip hop or electronic breakbeats you normaly dont need to much velocity changes because these styles mostly are based on a very defined backbeat you need punchy convinations of bass drumm and snare
otherway your kit will probably be lost with the other parts of the music in breakbeats normally the sound from the other instruments are agressive like synth arpeggios etc etc

and a good hip hop track should have this heavy feeling for the drumms, but...

if you produce other styles like triphop for example you would like to use different aproach to laydown drumm grooves why?

because this style could be punchy as well but there is alot more open to use other drumming like funk and jazz drumming and to play properly this styles of drumming you definitly need more expression for the drumm here is where the velocity layers that comes with the bfd comes handy you can really move from a very soft playing or a hard one but is not about just volume


as we know all instruments base their timbre on something called formants this formants change based on the material of the instrumen, how you hit them ,how the body of the instrumen make the resonation etc etc

so if you program 3 or 5 hits on a mpc you are constrain to those formants but in bfd you have real recording of 100 or more velocity layers that will react as accurate as almost a real drumm so this gives you more expression not just in volume but in formants and timbre too, becoming your sound more colorful and expressive

if you produce techno you dont mind to much about this either but with some electronic music so called idm you would find it quite useful

other diference between systems is that you can edit faster on an ableton live system also with the nonlinear secuencing is very cool to play different versions of the same song jut to find what part works better or wich part lack continuity with the rest that`s possible in mpc but in a laptop you got a better screen etc etc

also you have to have in mind that virtually all that an mpc is able to do a software can do it ,the same or more flexible i wouldnt produce entirely on a mpc personally because there are stuff an mpc will never do like

resynthesis in real time and advanced processing and synthesis like those found in programs like reaktor,super collider,c sound etc etc

but again if you base your production on chopping and pasting records as a collage like dj shadow etc etc wich is very cool you dont need all these programs and an mpc with normal efects and cut and paste possibilities are fine for you

now lets address the always polemic hardware vs software issue

dont be missleading for all the pros im saying about software I really like hardware ,I also own a mpc2000xl etc
about sound quality ok here there are some factors too

first wich kind of samples are you using in the beggining and if you are recording at wich sampling rate are you recording, because if you have a low resolution sample is the same tu put it on a mpc with 44.1k or apogee 96khz sound card it will sound the same at some point, same if you are sampling from a cd think that will be 44.1

but if you are sampling from vinyl there you will need a better quality because the lp`s has a bigger range that again is controversial people say that humans can`t hear those frequencies, remember the human ear comes from 20hz to 20khz the highest pitch this changes with age etc

so tecnically speaking those frequencies present on records are not audible for humans but here is the funny part of this, probably the ear can`t but owr brain does!!!!! this is called psychoacustics

so in the other hand every gear has it`s own components that at the same time have different ways of process signals that`s why engineers are always looking for wich micro goes with wich preamp on wich speakers this is audio engineering and is a personal decicion, wich sounds better a mpc or an audio interface depends on your own taste

about real quality you can get analog to digital converters from apogee that are amazingly accurate better than mpc ones or standar sound cards but are expensive

and about gear itself to buy an mpc5000 is as expensive as buy a mac laptop with 4 gb of ram ,if you can buy a mac

we can talk the also very polemic about mac vs windows later if you are interested.


so to produce on ableton is flexible powerfull and easy, you can process with thousands of plug ins and use advance algorithms on a computer to make music

but mpc will do always what it does i mean softwares today are expensive and if you have the originals is like renting them there is always a new version also computers crashes and sometimes are unstable more often on windows but even mac is not 100 percent safe so to play live i would prefer something i could trust like a mpc hardware

so a good combination could be produce on computer play on hardware !!!!! so wich features the mpc5000 is offering us for this???

im thinking to upgrade from my 2000xl but im still thinking about it. and remember hardware will always have a better feeling than using a mouse!!!! but you can buy midi controllers at the end is personal taste and what do you really need to produce!!!!

ok very large post I hope you find it useful greetings to all and remember that there is no better way to make music that really know music study composition

Ayyo this thread has been very informative, I am also a user of both Ableton and a MPC 1000 loaded with JJOS. At this point in time I have a more established feel for the MPC's sequencer, and overall workflow buttt.......I have recently began working with Ableton 7.0 as a production tool, and boy has my creativity soareeed. I have only been playing with it for about it for about a week now, but boy o boy is the workflow better....and I have recently learned to replicate the MPC's swing and groove for natural sounding percussion. Anyways it all boils down to what works best for you. Oh yeah check it below are two links, one of which features my MPC based production, the other features my pure Ableton produced side project beats.

Ableton LIVE 7.0: http://www.myspace.com/inojen

MPC: http://www.myspace.com/steviedestro

aiiight one!

how do you replicate the mpc swing in ableton? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please tell me

When you use drum rack or any other midi instrument, If you click on the recorded notes it takes you to the note edit view on the bottom. From there you can modify the groove and a few other cool settings.