can i midi thru with the mpc1000?

Scroo you guys, I'm getting a Mellotron!

mpc3000 wrote:"The Triton is an established sound, while the Fantom, unfortunately, has yet to prove itself"

So are you saying if you want to sound like everyone else and use yesterday's sounds, buy the triton? But if you want to use something that not many others have used, buy the Fantom? If you yearn to be accepted by showing that you can buy the same gear as everyone else, buy the Triton? If you want to stand out from the crowd, be different, and run against the grain, buy the Famtom?

Personally I avoid either one. Regrdless of how they sound they represent the giants of the industry. Roland and Korg are the Walmarts of the music industry feeding pop culture. Buy from a small company, like Akai with their 25 employees. There are some synth companies that have under 10 employees and I know one that had only 2.

No that's not what I'm saying,, sorry for the confusion. I'm saying that both used sounds that are not new. Triton sounds are dated, and Fantom sounds are rehashed XV sounds. My point, and if you do the research it's all public domain, is that the Fantom is not being used by professionals. I'm not saying one sounds better than the other. I'm just saying that, if I had not choice but to either get a Triton or a Fantom, I'd get the Triton (and then sell it for more money than I could for teh Fantom, and get a Motif ES)

With the Fanotm, you'll still be using the same sounds that have been used with the XV, which is a popular sound. Triton or Fantom, you're going to sound for lack of a better term, commercial. But because of certain design flaws, which you can go on the web and find many in depth detailed descriptions of (hampered sampler and sequencer, polyphony reducing due to the complexity of the voice, etc, i.e not true ployphony like the MOTIF has), the Fantom is not being used by professionals, even Roland endorsed ones, they are not selling (which can be verified publicly because BY LAW Roland has to release their sales figure), and there re-sale value is extremely low.

So, if you had a choice of getting to pieces of gear whose sounds are well used and already in ciruclation, would you get the piece the pro's use, or the one they avoid? I was just give xs a different perspective about his Triton purchase. Phedeks obviously is attatched to gear in an emotional way, and refuses to even consider for a second whether my point is valid. He's being irrational.

Just to add some objectivity, the synth engine on the Fantom is obviously superior to either the Motif ES or the Triton,, it is more expandable, and has better effects implementation than the Triton. It's more bang for the buck as well.

Phedeks wrote:

balil2 wrote:

Phedeks wrote:By the way saying the new fantoms sounds are recycled shows you dont know what you're talking about.

Man, I'm not trying to fight, so don't get so defensive. Its a FACT that they are using the same XV engine that's been around for years. It's not my opinion it's a FACT. Since its the SAME XV ENGINE that means - logically - that the sounds are recycled from previous earlier Roland boards. Is that to say the sounds are bad? No. Is that to say the sounds are good? No. It is to say that the sounds are not new.

I don't mean to insult you Phedeks, but since you didn't properly research your purchase, you just showed that it's you who doesn't know what you are talking about.

I'm out of this thread. For those considering the Fantom line, do the research before buy.

I cant help but laugh that you're so serious about what you're saying. Properly research my purchase. Hahah ok man. You go buy that triton maybe you can be the next chad hugo/trackboys/trackstars/neptune clone.MPC 3000 is right. I do have a couple of synths that not many people buy because they think like you. I'm actually glad there are people with your mentality it makes original sounding tracks stand out.

You're really presupmtuos. I don't own a Triton or a Fantom. Most sounds I use I make my self, either with synths, but usually with samplers. Second, i'm not trying to make commercial hip hop (or hip hop necessarily). And you're a hipocrite. Why are you using a MPC? Is it to be different from all the other producers? Does it matter that there have been hundreds of hits and thousands of tracks made with the MPC? Are you worried about sounding like somebody else because of it?

MPC 3000 was not right, but that's not his fault, maybe my language was unclear. My point again, is that BOTH use sounds that have already been in circulation: FACT. The Triton has already proved itself in the professional community: FACT. The Fantom is not selling and being rejected by the professional community: FACT. Using both boards will mean using sounds that have already been used before: FACT. When it comes tomm spending thousands of dollars, it's important to know all of the FACTS.

Feel better about yourself FedEx.

balil2 wrote:

Phedeks wrote:

balil2 wrote:

Phedeks wrote:By the way saying the new fantoms sounds are recycled shows you dont know what you're talking about.

Man, I'm not trying to fight, so don't get so defensive. Its a FACT that they are using the same XV engine that's been around for years. It's not my opinion it's a FACT. Since its the SAME XV ENGINE that means - logically - that the sounds are recycled from previous earlier Roland boards. Is that to say the sounds are bad? No. Is that to say the sounds are good? No. It is to say that the sounds are not new.

I don't mean to insult you Phedeks, but since you didn't properly research your purchase, you just showed that it's you who doesn't know what you are talking about.

I'm out of this thread. For those considering the Fantom line, do the research before buy.

I cant help but laugh that you're so serious about what you're saying. Properly research my purchase. Hahah ok man. You go buy that triton maybe you can be the next chad hugo/trackboys/trackstars/neptune clone.MPC 3000 is right. I do have a couple of synths that not many people buy because they think like you. I'm actually glad there are people with your mentality it makes original sounding tracks stand out.

You're really presupmtuos. I don't own a Triton or a Fantom. Most sounds I use I make my self, either with synths, but usually with samplers. Second, i'm not trying to make commercial hip hop (or hip hop necessarily). And you're a hipocrite. Why are you using a MPC? Is it to be different from all the other producers? Does it matter that there have been hundreds of hits and thousands of tracks made with the MPC? Are you worried about sounding like somebody else because of it?

MPC 3000 was not right, but that's not his fault, maybe my language was unclear. My point again, is that BOTH use sounds that have already been in circulation: FACT. The Triton has already proved itself in the professional community: FACT. The Fantom is not selling and being rejected by the professional community: FACT. Using both boards will mean using sounds that have already been used before: FACT. When it comes tomm spending thousands of dollars, it's important to know all of the FACTS.

Feel better about yourself FedEx.

You're hillarious. First of all a MPC does not come with sounds. So you cant sound like anybody but yourself what you put in is what you get out. I use a MPC because I went to guitar center played with it and enjoyed it. Not because the "Professionals" use one. I use what i'm comfortable with. Why dont you show me where the fantom is being rejected? I'd love to see that. Even if it was (Which its NOT) I wouldnt give a flying fuk.

only stupid cats pay retail, some of the best synths of today are old ones thar were not popular when they came out. Face it the triton is played out, why do you think the pros are buying the motif and the voyager? there is some flexibility in the triton, but it doesn't inspire you to use it. it is a large glorified sample cd.

elmacaco wrote:only stupid cats pay retail, some of the best synths of today are old ones thar were not popular when they came out. Face it the triton is played out, why do you think the pros are buying the motif and the voyager? there is some flexibility in the triton, but it doesn't inspire you to use it. it is a large glorified sample cd.

True, but you're missing my point. My point is that BOTH the Triton and the Fantom used played out sounds. How can anybody say that the XV sound engine is not played out?? The voyager's sound is perhaps "played out" - minimoogs have been around for decades (although I think the Moog sound is classic). And even not paying retail, this shits expensive if it's not used!!!

MOTIF will be played out at some point, too. My point wasn't which one sounds better, which one is more inspiring, which one is more flexible, etc. These things are all subjective. My point is that the Fantom is being rejected by the professional community, for some reasons. If Rolands own sponsored pros won't use them, and as you said, use a MOTIF or, as I said, a Triton instead doesn't that say something to you?

Phedeks wrote:

balil2 wrote:

Phedeks wrote:

balil2 wrote:

Phedeks wrote:By the way saying the new fantoms sounds are recycled shows you dont know what you're talking about.

Man, I'm not trying to fight, so don't get so defensive. Its a FACT that they are using the same XV engine that's been around for years. It's not my opinion it's a FACT. Since its the SAME XV ENGINE that means - logically - that the sounds are recycled from previous earlier Roland boards. Is that to say the sounds are bad? No. Is that to say the sounds are good? No. It is to say that the sounds are not new.

I don't mean to insult you Phedeks, but since you didn't properly research your purchase, you just showed that it's you who doesn't know what you are talking about.

I'm out of this thread. For those considering the Fantom line, do the research before buy.

I cant help but laugh that you're so serious about what you're saying. Properly research my purchase. Hahah ok man. You go buy that triton maybe you can be the next chad hugo/trackboys/trackstars/neptune clone.MPC 3000 is right. I do have a couple of synths that not many people buy because they think like you. I'm actually glad there are people with your mentality it makes original sounding tracks stand out.

You're really presupmtuos. I don't own a Triton or a Fantom. Most sounds I use I make my self, either with synths, but usually with samplers. Second, i'm not trying to make commercial hip hop (or hip hop necessarily). And you're a hipocrite. Why are you using a MPC? Is it to be different from all the other producers? Does it matter that there have been hundreds of hits and thousands of tracks made with the MPC? Are you worried about sounding like somebody else because of it?

MPC 3000 was not right, but that's not his fault, maybe my language was unclear. My point again, is that BOTH use sounds that have already been in circulation: FACT. The Triton has already proved itself in the professional community: FACT. The Fantom is not selling and being rejected by the professional community: FACT. Using both boards will mean using sounds that have already been used before: FACT. When it comes tomm spending thousands of dollars, it's important to know all of the FACTS.

Feel better about yourself FedEx.

You're hillarious. First of all a MPC does not come with sounds. So you cant sound like anybody but yourself what you put in is what you get out. I use a MPC because I went to guitar center played with it and enjoyed it. Not because the "Professionals" use one. I use what i'm comfortable with. Why dont you show me where the fantom is being rejected? I'd love to see that. Even if it was (Which its NOT) I wouldnt give a flying fuk.

FedEx - you can see that the Fantom is being rejected by the fact that PROS DON"T USE THEM. You don't see them on stage, you don't hear pros talking about them. SILENCE. People still talk about Tritons, and even venerate Kurzweils, which are the oldest technology of ALL the workstations. Think about it - pro would rather use older technology rather than newer technology. Why?

And you wouldn't be playing with your MPC at guitar center if professional musicians hadn't made hundreds of hits with the MPC. If it wasn't a professional success, it would have been ditched by Akai a long time ago.

The mini sound can not be played out because it is a synthesizer with zero patch storage, you create the sounds, you have no choice. You can make it sound very different, not always recognizable as a mini or an analog, but the sound quality of it will kill anything. I saw the triton and Motif go down in flames next to a mini and a rhodes on stage, by pros with 30 years experience.

the XV didn't sell as well as the triton, triton presets are garbage and have been heard on many albums because of convinience, not quality. The XV has good sounds, but they have not been played as much as the triton.

Also the character of triton sounds is weak, like I said, by itself it sounds OK, but next to a motif, it loses, next to a fantom, it loses, next to a rhodes, a mini, or anything else, it sounds pretty crappy. The tube they added helps a lot, but it still doesn't change the sounds.

Sure you can program it, but it doesn't invite you to do so, it is a lazymaker where people would rather DL patches than make them.

I find the fantom a little more inviting in this respect, that skip back sampling is a great feature, and it has many innovations over the XV.

Roland wishes the XV5050 was half as popular as the triton, hence it is not as played out as the triton, also the triton has been out much longer.

elmacaco wrote:The mini sound can not be played out because it is a synthesizer with zero patch storage, you create the sounds, you have no choice. You can make it sound very different, not always recognizable as a mini or an analog, but the sound quality of it will kill anything. I saw the triton and Motif go down in flames next to a mini and a rhodes on stage, by pros with 30 years experience.
.

True - that's whay I don't use a workstation. Workstations are a compromise of convenience for quality. And even though I agree with you on the Moog, there are many who don't agree with us. For all the mini purists, there are those who point to its limited synth architecture, and it's extemely high price. Saying something is 'played out' is hard to do.

For example Korg sounds versus Roland sounds is an old debate. Each has good sounds and each has bad sounds, to different people. The best is to get both, if you're really after all the sounds.

My point is that the Fantom is not a popular workstation with the pro's. I used the Tritons popularity to underscore the point that an older workstation is still preferred to this newer one. not necessarily because of the sounds, but because of other reasons - namely sampling and sequencing limitations. That's all. Pro's and Con's. Sure the Triton has con's to, but it's misleading for some (FedEx) to paint this incorrect picture of the Fantom when, no matter where you buy, it's costing a lot of money.

Listen to the sounds and decide for yourself about the sounds.

when you hear a mini next to a triton or anything else, the allure is clear.

popularity does not mean quality, or a good machine, especially in the case of the triton, the trinity was popular as well in the hip hop / pop set because the industry has been focusing on churing out tunes, people buy the triton because of the presets and the hype. The presets were usable, at one point due to novelty, but now the flatness of the sound is apparent and is just so weak. Older samplers, some new stuff sounds great almost with everything. You put something in or program a patch, it just sounds good. The triton doesn't have this, so pro's may be able to get away with it through their expensive outboard, but the ensuing hype is what sold that board.

When you can spot a triton preset, or (gastp!) triton drums in commercial tracks that are straight average with heavy rotation, yeah, it's played.

You might be able to program some good sounds on the triton, but the overall quality is still there. It in no way should be recomended to people as some sort of top dog.

Pro's use what they are used to, they have a triton and like it, why should they get anything else that performs the same thing? The Motif is great, but learning yamaha isn't the easiest thing tro learn when you are not familiar with it, also the fantom, people may have the xv5050 and not need another controller, and not want to learn a new peice, or not have room for another big keyboard.

Also, where are you getting this that the Roland Pro's aren't using the fantom?

elmacaco wrote:when you hear a mini next to a triton or anything else, the allure is clear.

popularity does not mean quality, or a good machine, especially in the case of the triton, the trinity was popular as well in the hip hop / pop set because the industry has been focusing on churing out tunes, people buy the triton because of the presets and the hype. The presets were usable, at one point due to novelty, but now the flatness of the sound is apparent and is just so weak. Older samplers, some new stuff sounds great almost with everything. You put something in or program a patch, it just sounds good. The triton doesn't have this, so pro's may be able to get away with it through their expensive outboard, but the ensuing hype is what sold that board.

When you can spot a triton preset, or (gastp!) triton drums in commercial tracks that are straight average with heavy rotation, yeah, it's played.

You might be able to program some good sounds on the triton, but the overall quality is still there. It in no way should be recomended to people as some sort of top dog.

Pro's use what they are used to, they have a triton and like it, why should they get anything else that performs the same thing? The Motif is great, but learning yamaha isn't the easiest thing tro learn when you are not familiar with it, also the fantom, people may have the xv5050 and not need another controller, and not want to learn a new peice, or not have room for another big keyboard.

Also, where are you getting this that the Roland Pro's aren't using the fantom?

I'm in LA, and one of the stores here does a lot of business with Roland. Buying a Roland product from them is actually a very good deal because every week a Roland rep comes in, and can actually give you face to face support. I was considering a workstation, and of course considered the Fantom X. The people at the store actually advised me not to buy the Fantom because of the terrible feedback the board received from pros who were given the board by Roland. The reasons given to me were: handicapped sequencer functionality, rehashed XV sounds, and 'false' ployphony (the more complex the sound, the less polyphony). These drawbacks have given the Fantom range "entry level" status, at least in the LA community. But that's a big professional community. In the LA community, apparently Kurzweil is still the top dog, not Triton.

Not to be offensive, but I don't know why examples are being brought up that don't have to do with my point. I understand the allure of a mini to a Triton - I admitted as much in my previous post. But there are some who think the mini sounds dated. Whether something sounds better or played out is subjective. People still make awesome beats with the 808 and 909 - some consider the sounds dated, some timeless. My point wasn't about sounds, because that's all in the ears. My point was on the value of the Fantom X compared to the Triton, based on reasons other than sounds. Someone mentioned that the Triton sounds are played, and I countered with the fact that many people consider the Fantom sound dated as well.

I'm REALLY done with this thread. No more comparing analog synths to digital workstations,, no more arguing over the subjected nature of sound. If you want to buy a Fantom X buy a Fantom X - I was just trying to give some information which might help a purchase, or in XS case, give him some other information to consider when comparing a Fantom to a Triton. I wouldn't say buy a product becayse it's popular and played - but definetly dig deeper when a product sells poorly AND is ill received by the pro community. It just makes sense.

Ok, now I get where you are coming from. At first it seemed you were coming from the standpoint of the triton is better, without really saying why. So sure, if you need a sequencer besides the mpc the fantom might be a bad choice. The false polyphony thing is an indication of deep programming capability (something the pro's seldom do, unless they hire someone to program) my k5000 has this false polyphony and it has never hampered me even multitibrally, but on a workstation it makes less sense.

If it is very deep in programming, the xv dated comment is BS, from pros who buy them like they are sample cd's, the triton is basically a rompler you can sample into, with I believe less resonant filters than even the trinity had (12 on the trinity, 1 on the triton IIRC) Not a flexible programmers synth. Roland also has massive sample mangling, not sure how much of that made it to the fantom, but the skip back sampling shows that roland still looks ahead in making innovative instruments, despite their bad reputation.

The M1 is dated, the 909 is dated without processing, the 808 can be dated, but changed in many ways since it has no stock samples, (the 909 HH's are the give away and it does make many songs sound too similar.

True synths can be an endless pallate. What the original poster asked for was heavy sample manipulation, and the triton just won't cut it.

The ASR 10 can surely kill it with transwaves alone, despite the limitations of an old sampler, and is why I thought the triton was an odd recommendation.

I do not own a fanton, nor have any desire to, but it seems to have a lot more going for it than the frikin triton, which is like 6 years old and basically a rehash of the trinity with resources shuffled about.

The tube gimmick is a good one, but how much does that add to the cost?

Ok Ok, I know you said you're done, so I'll shut up now.

It is good to know the Fantom has been rejected by pros, but many other great gear has shared the same fate and has made it to the annals of history.

Bernie Worrell didn't seem to pleased playing a triton live, and said "this new shit sucks, this ain't my clave or my mini!" and he's a pro I'd listen to.

balil2 wrote:

Phedeks wrote:

balil2 wrote:

Phedeks wrote:

balil2 wrote:

Phedeks wrote:By the way saying the new fantoms sounds are recycled shows you dont know what you're talking about.

Man, I'm not trying to fight, so don't get so defensive. Its a FACT that they are using the same XV engine that's been around for years. It's not my opinion it's a FACT. Since its the SAME XV ENGINE that means - logically - that the sounds are recycled from previous earlier Roland boards. Is that to say the sounds are bad? No. Is that to say the sounds are good? No. It is to say that the sounds are not new.

I don't mean to insult you Phedeks, but since you didn't properly research your purchase, you just showed that it's you who doesn't know what you are talking about.

I'm out of this thread. For those considering the Fantom line, do the research before buy.

I cant help but laugh that you're so serious about what you're saying. Properly research my purchase. Hahah ok man. You go buy that triton maybe you can be the next chad hugo/trackboys/trackstars/neptune clone.MPC 3000 is right. I do have a couple of synths that not many people buy because they think like you. I'm actually glad there are people with your mentality it makes original sounding tracks stand out.

You're really presupmtuos. I don't own a Triton or a Fantom. Most sounds I use I make my self, either with synths, but usually with samplers. Second, i'm not trying to make commercial hip hop (or hip hop necessarily). And you're a hipocrite. Why are you using a MPC? Is it to be different from all the other producers? Does it matter that there have been hundreds of hits and thousands of tracks made with the MPC? Are you worried about sounding like somebody else because of it?

MPC 3000 was not right, but that's not his fault, maybe my language was unclear. My point again, is that BOTH use sounds that have already been in circulation: FACT. The Triton has already proved itself in the professional community: FACT. The Fantom is not selling and being rejected by the professional community: FACT. Using both boards will mean using sounds that have already been used before: FACT. When it comes tomm spending thousands of dollars, it's important to know all of the FACTS.

Feel better about yourself FedEx.

You're hillarious. First of all a MPC does not come with sounds. So you cant sound like anybody but yourself what you put in is what you get out. I use a MPC because I went to guitar center played with it and enjoyed it. Not because the "Professionals" use one. I use what i'm comfortable with. Why dont you show me where the fantom is being rejected? I'd love to see that. Even if it was (Which its NOT) I wouldnt give a flying fuk.

FedEx - you can see that the Fantom is being rejected by the fact that PROS DON"T USE THEM. You don't see them on stage, you don't hear pros talking about them. SILENCE. People still talk about Tritons, and even venerate Kurzweils, which are the oldest technology of ALL the workstations. Think about it - pro would rather use older technology rather than newer technology. Why?

And you wouldn't be playing with your MPC at guitar center if professional musicians hadn't made hundreds of hits with the MPC. If it wasn't a professional success, it would have been ditched by Akai a long time ago.

LOL ok thats it. I do what I do because everybody else does it. I'm not you dawg dont project yourself onto me. I didnt start with a MPC dont get it twisted.

balil2 wrote:My point, and if you do the research it's all public domain, is that the Fantom is not being used by professionals.

Well I definately don't want to start any arguements, but I'm not sure where you got that idea. Among people using the Fantom-S in their production are Just Blaze, the Neptunes, Raphael Saadiq, and Jake & the Phatman. (For those who haven't heard of Jake & the Phatman, they are RnB producer...Angie Stone, Erykah Badu, Kelis, Dwele, Calvin Richardson, D"Angelo...the list goes on.) Denaun Porter also said recently that he uses the Fantom-X.

As far as the debate of what sounds better, and who you should support, I do agree that the smaller companies make great synths. Personally, I can't wait to get my hands on a Studio Electronics analog module.