Mute Groups VS Song Mode VS 8 Outs

Ok here is a topic I was wondering where people stand on
Recently I had a great beat maker on my radio show
A young kid by the name of cloud
You can hear the show here
http://www.viva-radio.com/cleanandhumble
and eventually here
http://www.cleanandhumble.podomatic.com
Cloud brought to my attention that I really do not use mute groups
and recently I have taken on the task of going through all my older beats
and messy kept files to re organize and re mix pretty much all of them
I plan to start re chopping things and reworking beats so I can use mute groups
Now
I use a MPC 2000 as my main machine
but recently bought a MPC 500 just for making beats for live playing
and mostly playing over them
So my main machine is the 2000
I mostly use song mode and organize many sequences into a song
and then set up a mixer in the MPC so I can hit play in song mode
and just send the MPC 8 outs to my 16 track board
and make a dub style mix of my beats
dropping faders and adding effects on different tracks on the fly
Like mute groups this process turns tracks on and off
and makes it so you can drop a snare here and there
and take away a bass line or sample loop etc.

My question is
Do you think that this process achieves the same out come of setting up Mute Groups?
the other question that comes up with the desire to try and start using mute groups
is spreading a drum loop sample across 16 levels
I know on the newer mpc's this seems to be automatic and simple
But as far as I can tell with the 2000 the only way to spread a 4 bar drum loop across
16 pads so it can be played in beat increments is to use zone edit
and edit your 2 or 4 bar loop step by step beat by beat
(like in a 2 bar loop lets say you have a 4 count in bar one
the kick being on the 1 and 3 and the snare being on the 2 and 4 let's say something like that)
is there something I am missing?

I personally think using as many different ways to mix a beat will make for interesting out comes
I do like the way mute groups make each beat more of a performance with in the box
However another question comes up
because I never use mute groups I never understood
if when people like Damu the fudge monk are using mute groups and pressing pads
and turning tracks on and off
are they just working off of a few sequences
and using the jog wheel to switch between sequences with in
the spontaneous performance of a beat?
Or is there a way to have song mode run through your selected
number of sequences and be turning tracks on and off as they scroll through
in song mode?

Anyone who can shed some light on this topic
and list there favorite method of making a final mix
of a beat is appreciated

Really no one has an opinion on this?

lemme make it simple
I had this kid on my radio show
who uses a newer mpc like a 1000
much like my nephew's mpc 1000
I noticed when you sample on the 1000
it just spreads the sample across the pads
sort of auto chopping it for you
so you can make those pete rock madlib type a chop beats
easily

So this young beat maker heard my beats
which are mostly made using song mode and many sequences
basically copying 3 or 4 basic sequences and making variations
of these sequences in song mode
Now his reaction was
"oh these are just drum loops and samples"
"you need to chop and use mute groups"
I knew what he was talking about
as I have watched many a Damu video on youtube
but my understanding of using mute groups variations what ever
Is just turning tracks on and off
The live performance aspect of the way Damu and many others do things
is very interesting to me but i think I am dong the same thing by using
the 8 outs to my board and making dub style mixes of my beats

Does that make more sense?

well song mode fits in like this
If your performing a beat using mute groups
and you are using your jog wheel to jog threw lets say 3 sequences
and turning tracks on and off
Basically by using song mode and setting up an arrangement for your sequences
then 8 outing the mpc to a board
hitting play and then pretend your king tubby on the board or lee perry
you achieve the same thing as you would by using the pads
to turn shit on and off
its all just dub mixing
and by sending it to a board you get more freedom to eq send to effects
and the feel of faders and knobs no homo

so take that young beat maker scoffing my style
kids man
they read a blog or two and think they know everything lol

there is more than one way to dub a beat

emcee p, i know wat ur saying...yeah u can do that as well.

but sometimes u want everything to drop out of the beat for a split second....when u do that track mute function is easier option. but technically u could trak into daw with 8 outs, separate it into 4 tracks, and then remove the audio where u dont want it.

i dont get how the kid and his autochopping mpc1000 has to do with 8 outs, song mode, or muting sounds

and whats the difference whether you use song mode or just do a long sequence.

whats the moral of the story here...i dont know.

apparently empeecee.P you're just flaming this guy, from what i see he likes to use mute groups,okay but that doesnt mean like oh i should start usin them to just because he said i should.

if you like your way of dub mixing your beats okay, then DO YOU, be unique and Cloud will do with whatever he likes.

If I think i kno who your talking about, the "kids" name is Cloud from New york and uses a Blue and Red MPC 1000 which he upgraded to from an AKAI MPD 16.

I just downloaded his beat tape called Pimp Steak and he is crazy. He knows what he's doin.

Also yea the 1000 can chromatically assign samples to the pads, also it has chop shop but you can also chop the samples manually if one wants.

dont worry if he "scoffed" your style, its just his opinion and advice that he gave you, if you dont like it than dont take his advice.

also dont assume things, it just makes one look like an idiot.

EDIT: Yea it is the same Cloud,just listened and saw the radio playlist.

Listen man
I like the kid
I had him on my show did nt I
but what I did not like
is that he spoke his method as if there was no other way
I like his music but honestly It seemed like dude
was not really feeling the show

that was a touch of a disapointment
its not like I had to have him on the show
and promote him

And I am not flaming at all
I was just trying to see what peoples feeling is about this
I actually went in and used muting with the pads
and enjoy and see why people would do it this way
However I still think sending it 8 outs and dropping faders
and adding effects is the exact same thing

the thing that I do not think is the same
is the auto chopping and 16 level pad asignment mapping
that is such a tool that makes it all ready made and easy

Anyhow
I hope you understand my point of view

Lampdog wrote:105 in the 2k manual.

also in the 2k you can open window on trk in main screen and get a track mute screen for pads?!? I think I read something like that about the 2k here recently. I hvae a 2kxl so there is a button for it. No buttont for that on the 2k, just hit open window
on main screen trk.

on the 2K it's not on the Track parameter, it's actually the On/Off parameter next to each track, that's what you see Damu doing on youtube.

four eyes wrote:i dont get how the kid and his autochopping mpc1000 has to do with 8 outs, song mode, or muting sounds

and whats the difference whether you use song mode or just do a long sequence.

whats the moral of the story here...i dont know.

Let me tie it all together for you. If you use SLICE to automatically chop and program your samples(2000XL, 1000) like Pete rock for example, you can MUTE little bits (16th notes) of a sample(drum loop) allowing for 'drops' like alot of hip hop songs have. The snare disappears then drops back in at the end of the bar to start the next bar. Damu on youtube does this manually by muting the track at the time he wants the track to mute, then unmuting it when he wants. When Damu mutes tracks he is usually muting a single sequenced sound which he has pulled from a drum break i.e. snare. If you took one of Damu's youtube videos and recorded the audio from it his would be comparable to what King Tubby does when making dub sides, it's a recorded performance. The other option is to copy your sequence a bunch of times and mute different things in different sequences then lay them out as a song in the song screen. Then when you hit play in song mode you don't have to touch the MPC. This is the method I use and when I track out beats into my DAW I do my mutes later by simply erasing the sound at that part. I like this method because once I track out the nice crunchy MPC sounds I go in and add things like EQ, mutes, other instruments etc. If you prefer a King Tubby style track out to using song mode so be it, no point restricting your creativity. The only drawback is there's no MPC backup if your computer decides to eat the King Tubby performance. Hope this helps.

Hi
i like to run 4 outs from a 2kxl (i would liek to 8 more but my mixing desk is very small - 8 chaneels and i need another 4 for other things) with different instruments (which dont necessarily correspond to my tracks but often do) going to each =
kick 1
snare 2
hihat 3
sample 4
etc... and i also have these on different tracks in my sequence.
my point is this:
sometimes i like to mute tracks with the trazck mute by pad, somtimes i use the mixing desk to mute different instruments (or elements of the song) or to send them to my fx loop. I find them both good for different styles but they are not mutually exclusive.
what is "no knobs homo" mean?
i dont really use the mute assign for this purpose that much - generally i use it for when i have different bits of samples that i want to mash them out together and switch each other off (i often prefer not always to use "note off")
pleace escuse my languege - its quite difficult for me to expres
peace
al

Wow
this is interesting to see how many different people
work in different ways
this is why I posted it
Not to Flare Flame or what ever you call it
Anyone!

Some people make it like there is only one way to work
especially when someone who worked that way gained sucess
like that of the J Dillatants that roam the earth these days
Love the guy really
great music
but John Coltrane changed my life first
is all I am saying !

Anyhow
My intention was to see how others were working
in this area and using my interaction was the best way to find out

As for what does no knobs homo mean?
LOL
The exact quote from my post was
"and the feel of faders and knobs no homo "

Meaning I am saying no homo cause I said I like the feel of Knobs lol

Hope that clears it up
thanks for your thoughts

PS I am still renaming snd files on my zips so I can save them
to my cf drive and still trying to become more familiar with my 500
I will tell you this young users
My 2 pieces of advice
ONE
If you are using a 2000 and zips
never name your files over 8 letters long

TWO
If your young and aint got shit to do
and find yourself with a lot of free time
use that time to spend with your MPC
cause as your days grow longer
your MPC time grows shorter
and when you only have an hour to make a beat
on a given day you will be thankful for all that youth time
you spent getting past any technical issues you may experience
in the making of a beat in your hour time limit