About the filters in OS 2XL

just got this in an email from Murai as a followup to my questions about the filter in OS 2XL:

Here is explanation of "Filter ADSR Depth" of OS2XL which JJ wrote.

http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/os2xl/os2xl_depth.htm



so if you take a look at this, i can see what JJ is getting at. when you have both FREQUENCY and DEPTH parameters, things can get a little confusing/redundant since they both seem to be doing the same thing (someone correct me if i am wrong but that seems to be the point here).

in OS 2XL, the DEPTH parameter has been removed since the FREQUENCY parameter does the same thing. in theory nothing would be lost.

EXCEPT...

1. can you enter negative values?
you can enter negative values for DEPTH in OS 2 and get a cool 'reverse envelope' effect. have your FREQUENCY set high and DEPTH set to a negative value so when you hit the pad the filter gets closed down, which can make your drum hits sound kind of like they are playing in reverse. so in OS 2XL, how do you start with a high FREQUENCY and then drop way down when the pad is hit? negative SUSTAIN value?

2. what happened to filter AFTERTOUCH ??!
this one is CRITICAL, especially with INST programs. again, i don't see it anywhere in the OS 2XL screenshots so it looks like it's been pulled.

3. what does he mean when he mentions 'start OFFSET is added automatically for a long time attack' (towards the bottom of the page)?


but no matter how you slice it, it looks like OS 2 programs that make use of the filter are not going to sound the same and will need to be tweaked to work in OS 2 XL. i'm definitely not too happy about that.

1. Certainly not.

3. It seems like with a long attack, the envelope wont start at 0 Hz but at a higher value.

But i don´t get it, it´s just less control. The filter seems to always start at 0 Hz (except for longer attacks).
Not a good thing.
And his "troublesome setup" is not a problem at all for me. Cutoff+modulation depth is the way every sampler and synth works, that´s for a reason.

^^^ Agreed. This looks very limited. You should be able to control where the start of the attack is with a 'depth' parameter, and you should be able to enter negative 'depth' values. They are just basic synth functions.

ok. got an update from JJ on the filter issue:

It was changed similarly to OS2.
However, there is not "Velocity Depth".
Since the picture of the site was changed, please refer to it.
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/os2xl/

so FILTER RELEASE and DEPTH are back! looks like my begging paid off!

BUT... VELOCITY DEPTH is M.I.A.

i dunno. i'm really happy to have DEPTH back but losing VELOCITY DEPTH is still a bummer. maybe some more begging will get it back.

maybe we can have both options available somehow. like if you want to use FILTER 2 you can switch off the VELOCITY DEPTH but if you want to have the VELOCITY DEPTH than you can switch off FILTER 2 instead. an either/or thing. i'm personally not that excited about FILTER 2 coming back. the current OS 2 FILTER is so flexible that i don't really miss it.

ideally we could have ALL of it at the same time but it sounds like JJ might be running into the limits of the CPU.


EDIT:
i just looked at the page and ALL the screenshots have been removed. don't know why as he had some new ones up a couple days ago. but this seems new:

There is not Q-REAL of a grid.

There is no Simult Pad.

Sooty_G wrote:There is no Simult Pad.

if this is true and jj doesn't come up with something else to layer samples 2xl isn't for me anymore. i simult-pad everything!

^^^ Yep that would pretty much kill it for me too.

3rd that, im still on 0s1 was looking to upgrade to the xl but simult pad is an essenntial for me aswell.

bass & treble to filters is heavy tho.

There is no Simult Pad.

yes this would be greatly missed by myself too, although I hope the pad chord function will replace it fully.Rather than specifying a pad number to trigger another pad maybe we'll be able to assign the midi note number of the pad instead?

i wouldn't sweat it, folks, i dont think we should be basing so much off an incomplete website documentation and a changing feature list.

i'm probably in the minority but i never use SIMULT PAD. i'm more concerned about "There is not Q-REAL of a grid". i wonder what that means exactly? how else are you going to record / edit Q-REAL data?

i use simult on virtually all of my drums. simult is very important to my work, to the point where it is a dealbreaker (i'd still buy, but SIMULT is essential to my drum programming)

qreal in grid edit in regular OS2 is inferior to CC edit in MIDI GRID EDIT (you can't zoom in qreal edit) so maybe it'll find its way in someplace else

this happens every time a new software is released, a great concern over the development. in the end, everything works out fine. current os2 is pretty ridiculously awesome as it is.

regarding CHORD replacing SIMULT: i could see that working...especially if there's an OFFSET function too (maybe just a dream)

one idea i pitched was having multiple PGM types. this might be a silly idea, but here goes:

currently:

DRUM PGM
INST PGM.

os2xl:

DRUM PGM A
DRUM PGM B
INST PGM

^ where PGM type A is the typical os2 pgm
^ where PGM type B has FILTER2 and a couple of the other in PGM changes so far announced.

^ and i'd still kill for "SIMULT PGM"

I dont really understand why JJ would develop such an amazing os (OS2) and then decide to make a newer OS and REMOVE important additions!?!?!?!
I cant see why he cant just keep the os the same and add to it.
I just hope he ends up keeping SIMULT PAD, this is very important to my programming!
Peace!

^^^ The reason I'd think he'd release a totally new OS would probably be because adding the features that he wants requires some sort of massive overhaul of the backend code. This could be because the with the current way he has coded it he is running into hardware limitations, so he requires a new approach to work around the limitations. So, if he did just still call it OS2, it wouldn't really be the same from a programming perspective. From a programming perspective it makes more sense to release a new version if you are changing the fundamental architecture. Also I think he is adding many more important additions than the ones we are speculating that he is taking away.

Yeah I think Nym is right about not sweating it until its out. I'm sure it'll all work out fine.