Why should I choose the MPC 5000 over the Roland MV8800

There you go running again Jahbronie! You tried counting samples and your 3500 got it's butt kicked. With that many option there's nothing that the 3500 can do that that MV can't- via MIDI or otherwise.

As far as the FX does the MV's MX and effects setup is considerably more powerful.

Damn right I said it! In fact , while I loved the 4000's routing there's nothing special about the 5000 FX sytem. In fact I can lay out a number instances where the 5000 would roll over and spew smoke. In case you haven't read it yet i would get that PM from the MV nation mod that lays out the MV's FX structure and how it intended to be used. You can hang onto the "1 MFX" line if want but your arrogance and Numark allegiance is about to bite you in the azz....again.


It's your choice Jahbronie - do ya really wanna go there?

Just start the thread and make your case...ya scerd?

* Anyone that has read the MFX guide at the other forum knows what's coming your way.

nitrotracker for ds
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It's funny how you completely talked around the issue. The MV can only use 16 multisampled patches at once. Why should someone choose a 5K over the MV? Because you can actually add a program/patch to each track (up to 64) not be limited to 16 like the MV. (Even the MPC 1000 gives you more than 16).

You can talk all day about how great the effects are in the MV..but you still only get 1 to be shared with the 16 multisampled patches you are so fond of. Only 1? Roland shipped my Fantom G with 16 multieffects..one per each part and 2 global multi-effects. The MV update is long overdue but it will most likely happen with an MV-9000. Back to the 5K....it has 4 multi-effects slots....not 1 like the MV. If the MV shipped with 10 analog or digital outputs so you can easily route your audio to a mixer or DAW, the 1 effect slot wouldn't be a big deal since you can get better effects in numerous plug-ins.

In case you forgot...we are talking about machines. It is nothing personal so stop taking it that way.

16 mulitsampled patches + 32 banks of drums/phrases = 5000 getting it's azz kicked!

MPC-5000 mutisample capability = 0

The MPC-5000 cannot handle keygroups and multisamples. It's a $2600 phrase sampler.

Also you can stop with 64 program lie. The MPC can play 32 programs in mutitimbral mode on the 2 midi ins - not 64!



*Ive ask dude to make his info sheet a regular post hopefully he will. I don't feel right reposting a helpful PM across forums. However I'll drop this on this on ya...

The FX blocks in the 4000 are mono and must be linked to make them stereo (effectively wiping out all four blocks) and the 5000 is now down to 2 if they are true "stereo in/stereo out" buses. The MV has both a dedicated ( and independent) stereo Reverb and Delay /Chorus. They are available at all times and can be routed to by channel send or at pad level.

...we haven't begun to talk about the power of the COSM engine over the 3500's lackluster generics.

BTW- I'd more concerned with 5000 upda....sorry bug fixes. This isn't personal for me . I wizz on the 3500 for the pure fun of it.

Finally, you admit to what we already knew. The MV is only capable to run 16 multisampled keymapped instruments. The MPC 1000/2500 can run at least 64 of these. Do I need to repeat that? They can run up to 64 multisampled instruments not 16 like the MV. The MPC 5000 is a phrase sampler that doesn't currently support keygroup type instruments, however it CAN load multisamples in .wav format. These multisamples can be assigned to a sample program/patch (with full ADSR) so you can play them back from the pads or an external keyboard controller. MPC users have been doing this for years and this website sells such programs ready made.

The 5K has a multitimbral mode so that 32 of its instruments (sample/synth programs) can be played and sequenced from an external device. However, the fact remains is that its internal sequencer runs up to 64 programs/instrument/patches. Sorry, the MV is limited to 16 instruments. Having 10,000 sounds means nothing to someone that wants to play more than 16 multisampled patches.

The 5K has 4 STEREO multi-effect busses, 2 effects per buss. These can be routed to its stereo pairs (L/R, 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8). You can also route them to individual outputs. If you want to link the effect processors, you will end up with 2 effect busses with 4 effects per buss. And you still have a global Master EQ and Compressor. The MV only has 1 multi-effects processor. And still, I feel very comfortable talking about the COSM engine because I own a Fantom G where it is properly implemented....a mult-effect for each part. Roland half-stepped when they added it to the MV..only 1 multi-effect that has to be shared Throw the MV out the window and get yourself an Fantom G.

Now....the MVs sequencer? It is well documented everywhere that the MVs sequencer goes out of sync when you play long audio tracks. Why deny this? Its even posted on the MV forums page with Roland product specialist telling people to slice long samples into smalled ones to give the MVs sequencer a reference point. MPs continuous sample tracks do not have this issue. They stay in sync and do not drift.

Dear god now reaching to lower MPCs to stand where the 5000 can't is damn pathetic.

2. Sorry dude when the only thing you can do is play phrases the mV is more than capable of holding it's own unlike the 3500 phrase can be separate from the standard tracks. like it or with the 3500 all you have are phrases so IMO the 3500 is well short.

The MV MFX -

Dedicated stereo reverb - 3500 no!
Dedicated stereo Delay/Chorus - 3500 no!
MFX capable of 7 effect blocks at once- 3500 no! 3500 FX engine too weak.
RSS Processing - 3500 no!
10 Band Vocoder- 3500 no!
Phonograph Sim- 3500 no!
Radio Sim- 3500 no!
Isolator real time - 3500 no!
Pad Gate for Incoming Audio- 3500 no!
Enough processing power so that you don't have to watch a CPU meter- 3500 no!
* The manual even warns you about using delays and reverbs.


As far as the Master EQ and Compressor goes , I'd prefer to have real mastering tools and templates laid out by real mastering engineers ( for time saving and starting blocks). Besides the MV has parametric EQ on all of the patch and audio channels. The 3500 doesn't give you squat.

Mastering Processor
4 Band full parametric EQ
Bass Cut Filter
Input EQ
Enhancer
Compressor
Expander
Output Mixer
Limiter
Output Control w/ Variable Dither

Let me know when the 3500 processor can pull that off.
here it comes.....my Fantom G ...or some other whiny bullshit.

Having 10,000 sounds means nothing to someone that wants to play more than 16 multisampled patches.

Means a hell of lot when talking about a $2600 sampler that can't play any!

BTW- Nobody asked you anything about a Fantom so trying to get other devices to take the place of that pricey bugphraser.

As far Audio tracks drifting ,only a few people have ever complained about such an issue. Most that complained were beginners with the machine and all but one were dropping long wavs out of tempo and really long verses. It's a sticky on MVN because people keep asking the same question. Acosta clearly show the fix for dropped acapellas and long verses that may drift. if it occurs it takes a little over 2seconds to insert a reference point - problem solved. Sorry the 3500's problems aren't so easily dealt with.

If you want to discuss problems just look to your bug thread!

The MPC 3500 is chasing a machine first released in 2004. Good for the MV. Friggin pathetic for the 5000 which is less than year old and still doesn't work right.

The only thing the 5K chases is the MPC legacy..certainly not an MV. I had to give you an example of how the 5K and even the MPC 1000/2500 have at least 64 parts for instruments unlike the MV...

The MV has a global reverb and a chorus/delay that is shared with the 16 part sampler ( ). On an MP, you can assign 1 or more of the 4 multi-effects slots as a global reverb or a chorus/delay. That is the flexibility you have with an MP. You are not stuck with 1 multi-effect, a reverb, and a chorus like the MV.

MPC 5K:
Send/Insert effects- yes
Dedicated stereo reverb (7 types) - yes..insert in a multi-effect buss
Dedicated stereo delay/chorus (13 types)- yes..insert in a multi-effect buss
Chain 4 different effects - yes
Resampler - yes
Decimator - yes
VCA, Opto, and Vintage Compressor- yes
Master compressor and EQ- yes
Limited to 16 parts like the MV - hell naw....it has 64 parts
Continuous sample tracks or hard disk track going out of sync like the MV- No. No slicing long audio files....no adding reference points so the sequencer can lock onto the samples to keep them in sync...unlike the MV

MV:
EQ on ALL the patch channels- All 16 channels? I am impressed
EQ on ALL audio channels- All 8 channels that go out of sync? I am impressed

Yes, the audio tracks of the MV go out of sync. Of course newbies will complain. They don't expect this 3 year old bug to still exist. More experienced MV users are just use to the fact that Roland wil not fix it so they don't complain. Instead, they offer a work around to the problem. If I was an MV user, I would be spending my time trying to get Roland to fix that bug not hiding the fact that it exists.

I mention the Fantom G to inform you that I am very familar with Roland's technology. Plus to let anyone considering an MV that they can get Roland's latest technology in the Fantom G instead of its old technology in an MV. The MV is being discontinued shortly.....you can't even locate the output expansion any longer.

...and about the MPs effect meter. When you can have 64 programs going on in a sequence, it is nice to have an meter to keep an eye on how much power the effects are using. But if the MP was limited to 16 like the MV, I guess it wouldn't need an effect meter.

MPC 5K:
Send/Insert effects- yes
Dedicated stereo reverb (7 types) - NO Multi FX must be used...and the MV has 8 types inadition to the SRV Hall,rooom,and plate reverbs.
Dedicated stereo delay/chorus (13 types)- NO Multi FX must be used
Chain 4 different effects - MV chains 7
Resampler - LoFi processor ripoff
Decimator - LoFi processor ripoff
VCA, Opto, and Vintage Compressor- 1 compressor with tweaked parameters
Master compressor and EQ= crippled master section due weak processor
Limited to 16 parts like the MV - hell naw....it has 64 parts of nothing but drums/phrases because it's a $2600 phrase sampler crippled on the multisample front. As you said, if want multisampling buy an additional sampler for under $1000. $1000 to correct Numark negligence.....NOT!
Continuous sample tracks (just midi samples not linear audio) or hard disk track (sharing the hd for storage) going out of sync like the MV- No. In fact according to the bug thread sometime the 3500 HD tracks don't work at all...unlike the MV.

* Seems like Numark (and you ) likes to count variances of the same effect as more effects.

Sorry dude I'll take quality and power (MV or 4000) over quantity and mediocrity (3500) any day.
Which why most don't upgrade and most that send it back to Numark. Hence the refurb surplus that ha them selling the reject 3500s direct.

Jahbroanie wrote-If I was an MV user.....

You wouldn't have to lie about other gear and cover Numark's butt on every complaint - even when I have no real constructive input.

We're having fun so don't you run from me again Jahbronie. I'll have to chase you down and gut ya all over again.

In the end more trust past MPC and the MV than will ever trust the 3500. That's just fact-not a part of this wzzing contest. I'll leave it to you uncover why that is.

1. Multisamples. The MPC 5000 can currently load multi-samples of an instrument to create a patch/program (64 of these prorgams can be used in a sequence unlike the MV) in .wav format. You can assign these multi samples to a sample program in chromatic order so you can play them via an external keyboard. The 5K ships with a strings program to show you how to use multisamples. It consists of 9 strings sampled at different keys. Using the sample tune parameters, these 9 strings are chromatically assigned across a program giving you that much desired patch. With full ADSR in the amp/filter envelopes, you can shape the sounds as you see fit. I will post an example if requested.

2. Effects. For giggles, I created a sequence with 64 programs (which you can't do with an MV). I used one of the effect slots to add a global reverb (set at 100%) and delay (also set at 100%) and ran all the programs through them. The effect meter registered about 20%. I would never run the same reverb and delay across all my instruments 100% wet. But the fact remains is that the effect processor can handle this. For more giggles, I added another two more...a different reverb and delay on another effect buss and linked it with the first buss. So that gave me 64 programs being routed through 4 effects at 100%. The same effects you implied the MP couldn't handle. The effect meter reached about 44%. With all the sounds going and being run through two reverbs and two delays..it wasn't musical at all but the MP handled this test of the extreme.

The MV ships with 3 effect slots. 1 of them is a multi-effect, the other two are fixed as a reverb and a delay. The MP ships with 4 effect slots. You can freely assign any of the available effects to those effect slots. You are not tied down like you are the MV.

Continous sample tracks. Lets you take a long audio phrase and assign it to a track. No matter will your start the sequence, the track will play in sync. The MV gives you audio tracks which is basically the same thing except your long audio files WILL go out of sync. Visit the MV Forum and read up. It is a known bug that hasn't been fixed in approx 4 years.

Hard disk tracks. The hard disk tracks uses the hard disk of course. Anyone wanting a dedicated hard drive for recording audio and don't want to save files to the same hard drive can use the onboard CF card slot to save their projects to. You can also use the CDR for saving your project to instead of the hard disk. The MV doesn't have hard disk tracks nor does it have a CF card slot. As far as MPC tracks going out of sync...I have yet to encounter that with any MPC. I checked the bug report thread and didn't find anyone talking about that. Feel free to post the link to that bug and I will happily confirm it. This is the opposite of what Roland and the MV Forum does. The MV Forum will cover up and hut down everything bad about an MV (fact)...with the exception of the samples going out of sync problem which is a sticky. But they make users feel silly for asking why the samples are going out of sync. In this forum, if there is a problem with any function of the 5K, we post it in the bug threads. There is nothing to hide here...well, there is one thing but I am not telling

One more thing...don't try to align the MPC 4000 with the MV. The MPC 4000 is not a 16 channel multi-timbral sampler like the MV. I can't say exactly, but it should at least give you 64 like the 5K. The MV has been around for several years now...and it still has yet to make a name for itself as the drum machine/sampler/sequencer of choice for producers that people have actually heard of. I am not saying people should go out a buy something because a famous producer uses it (like most MPCs). But if you did...you would be reaching for an MP...not an MV.

Another product war brewing again?

The 5000 does not have true multisapling because it incapable of handling keygroups Jahbronie!
yo said youd so youself. Now your trying redfine multisampling. The casiotone ish your 3500 came with is just that. Let me know when the 5000 can handle the miroslav libraries like the 4000, the MV, or the S-1000. Face it the sampler in the 3500 is the same the 1000/2500. Get over it jahbronie! It's OK. Numark boned alot of other
before and after you.


2. 7 linked Multi FX blocks + dedicated reverb + dedicated chorus/ delay= MPC-5000 crying for mommy!
You don't have the FX blocks or the cpu power. Even if could (which you can't) you'd just have copounded cheese with the 5000 rookie FX engine -modeled after many of the MV's FX.


3.Continuous Track are not and will never be Audio Tracks no matter how many times you try to interchange the terms. I've told you and other members here have told you. The MV gives you linear audio tracks and unlike the CTs you love so much, they are triggered by midi. Do I have to slap you again bwah!


As for your constant criticism of the MV RAM based audio, you need only look to this thread to know that Numark has a way to before they get it right. it's all in their head right?
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=105948&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

The MV has a global reverb and a chorus/delay that is shared with the 16 part sampler

Hey Jahbronie, the Reverb and chorus/Delay are not Global. They affect only what is sent to them and passage through them is not mandatory. more importantly is that it's not part of the sampler. Both have their own independant channels on the mixer. Keep grasping and distorting Jahbronie.( )

How can a MV foum be covering up a problem when they have sticky to address it? They just don't let dudes like you disrupt shit with bogus post so you can feed post on other forums. I read a lot of critical thing overthere but theres a difference between having a legit gripe and just trying start sh!t. They don't like over there for the same reasons many can't stand you over here. It's pretty hard to be considered a troll on forum where you defend the base topic to the death- somehow you've managed to pull it off.

The MV has been around for several years now...and it still has yet to make a name for itself as the drum machine/sampler/sequencer of choice for producers that people have actually heard of. I am not saying people should go out a buy something because a famous producer uses it (like most MPCs). But if you did...you would be reaching for an MP...not an MV.

Yes it has.
Bull
Yes you are.
You just did.
but definitely not a MPC-3500! ...and those that do return them in droves.

You can also use the CDR for saving your project to instead of the hard disk.

..and numark will only charge you an extra $200 for the privilege .

With the time between the 4000 , the MV in 2004 and the current 3500 should be stable and loaded with feature.
Instead it's chasing a machine launched years ago and costing much less. It should at least trump all features of it less expensive ibling but it can't do that either. The new hagship sampler from Numark should be blowing away the competition. Instead the the 3500 just blows!


C'mon Jahbronie- Get back over here boy! I ain't gonna hurt ya......much!

1. The 5K does not support keygroup programming. But it does support loading multi-sampled instruments. This is something that is obviously over your head. With keygroup type sampling, you can assign 1 sample to a range of keys (one or more keys) and the sampler will automatically tune the sample over the selected range (possible in both the MP 1000/2500). The 5K does not currently do this. But what it does allow is for users to assign a multi-sample to each note number and use sample tune to manually do the exact same thing. The 5K doesn’t support Z-8, S-1000, or Roland format sound libraries. This is not an issue because all leading sound libraries today come in .wav format. That is your tutorial for today. * I see you stopped talking about the MVs 16 part limitation for these multi-sample instruments..since you are also so impressed by numbers

2. Effects. I already posted the results of taking the effects engine to the extreme. 64 instruments being routed to two reverbs and two delays (something you claimed that MP couldn’t handle). Having a dedicated reverb and delay is useless if you don’t need or want them. The MP has 4 dedicated multi-effects. If a MPC user wants a dedicated reverb and a delay, they simply insert them into two multi-effect slots. With two effects per buss, you have additional options. The MV doesn’t give you this option. It simply locks you into having a reverb and delay even if you don’t want them. So, you say that the MVs reverb and delay “affect only what is sent to them and passage through them is not mandatory.” FACT: This is exactly what a global effect is. These effects are on the mixer channel strips. Whether you use them or not, they are shared will all instruments. Changing a reverb or delay parameter will impact any instrument that is routed to it…a global effect. Good job of slapping yourself.

3. Audio tracks. Don’t even try comparing the MVs RAM based audio tracks with the 5Ks 8 hard disk audio tracks. Get real for a second. No matter how you try to paint the picture, the MP is far superior when it comes to audio tracks. You can only compare the MVs audio tracks with the MPs continuous sample tracks. The MVs audio tracks don’t stay in sync. The MPs continuous sample tracks stay in sync. The MV gives you 8 audio tracks. The MP gives you 8 hard disk audio tracks plus up to 64 continuous sample tracks. So what does the MVs audio tracks give you that the MPs audio tracks doesn’t?

4. Please don’t start with what these companies charge you for extras. Yes, I believe these latest MPCs should have CD drives as a standard. However, as long as you have companies like VST Service (advertised in the forum) you will get the memory and CD drive INCLUDED with the purchase of an MP. Now Roland charges you several hundred dollars to get an output expansion (now discontinued) when the MP includes this as standard. The MV needs a pricey expansion board to get 10 channels of digital audio output while the MP has this as a standard. Remember the MV-8000, Roland made users cough up hundreds of dollars for the VGA expansion board. If you do own an MV, it is obviously your first experience with Roland. They milked consumers for years by selling numerous options that should be standards.

5. MV Forum. They delete anything negative about the MV or quickly lock threads. This has nothing to do with me. They do this to actual MV users. The fact that the MVs audio tracks go out of sync is a well known bug that they had to address and eventually make a sticky to show you a work around. Since you are defending this bug, I guess the “work around’ works for you. But the fact remains, long audio tracks should not go out of sync. You should not have to slice audio tracks to give the sequencer a reference point so it won’t lose track of the audio file. This is not an issue with the Fantom G. Why won’t Roland fix this so it works on the MV? I admire your passion on defending the MV. And for the record, you can actually create music with it. It just misses the mark for me. The MV was the same prices as the 5K 6 months ago. The recent price drop is a clear indication that dealers are trying to get rid of their excess stock. It will be discontinued next month. It will be replaced with the MV-9000 which will have the bug fixes and OS improvements that the MV-8800 should receive but will never happen.

Based upon the feedback left from MPC 5000 users in this forum, it doesn't appear that there are any serious issues people run into. I have confidence that the reported bugs that have been reported here will be fixed. Forum members such as SCD have been a great resource for MPC.

Really? What forum were you on?

You just admitted the that 5000 is indeed crippled> damn , it took you long enough.
Like i said the 16 patches, 128 midi tracks, 32 audio Phrase Banks kicks the ish out of stillborn 5000. let it go. It's also inexcusable that the 1000/2500 exceeds the functionality of the 5000 in any area.

Memory, sample engine, and stability the 5000 is moving backwards.

2. Effects. I already posted the results of taking the effects engine to the extreme. 64 instruments being routed to two reverbs and two delays (something you claimed that MP couldn’t handle).

There's no way you can validate that claim and word isn't worth crap. now either you match the "7+rev+delay or you can't


The 4000 had CD installed and used standard PC memory as with the MV. In both case the output expansion was an option because most don't use them. In any case Roland gave the VGA for free soon after the MV's release. Meanwhile decided to fleece their customer with with a $200 laptop drive and overpriced generic memory.

You've already been schooled on the audio tracks. I've never had a problem with it.



Stop reposting the same sh1t Jahbronie it's kinda boring. In any case, I'm willing to bet that more would trust the MV in a studio than the buggy 5000...and that you can bet.

The recent price drop is a clear indication that dealers are trying to get rid of their excess stock. It will be discontinued next month. It will be replaced with the MV-9000 which will have the bug fixes and OS improvements that the MV-8800 should receive but will never happen.

Nucca i know you ain't talking about bug fixes

That fact you're even hving this debate is proof that the 5000 is a failure. I'll let you get back to your beta testing.