The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

moyphee, just for the record, the 1000/2500, properly equipped, ain't mere phrase samplers anymore

Blue Haze wrote:I'm stating that the 4k has parameters like
a synth just like many workstations that is all
which is why we love a full sampler. There are
no limits to creating sounds and patches and modulating
it is a wonderful thing CREATING SOUNDS.

What synth like parameters does the 4K has that the other MPCs don't have?

No doubt that JJ boosted the 1000/2500 beyond the status of mere phrase samplers. I was speaking of the units without the JJ OS being that the 5000 was lumped into the mix.

By the way...you guys seem to lust too much over a FULL hardware sampler. What exactly does your full hardware sample provide you that a drum sampler (MPC 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000) doesn't?

Actually all of the listed samplers (1000-2500 JJ /2000/3000) outperform the 5000 in the area of multisampling and keygroups.

Actually all of the listed samplers (1000-2500 JJ /2000/3000) outperform the 5000 in the area of multisampling and keygroups.

This is not an accurate statement.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Actually all of the listed samplers (1000-2500 JJ /2000/3000) outperform the 5000 in the area of multisampling and keygroups.

This is not an accurate statement.

How so? They all support keygroups and the 2000/3000 support the industry standard S-1000 format. The 5000 does neither.

moyphee wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Actually all of the listed samplers (1000-2500 JJ /2000/3000) outperform the 5000 in the area of multisampling and keygroups.

This is not an accurate statement.

How so? They all support keygroups and the 2000/3000 support the industry standard S-1000 format. The 5000 does neither.

Yeah, how is that an inaccurate statement? It's the truth though. Ever since the breakup of old Akai, Nukai has birthed one h*ll of a bastard mpc. I say this because JJ must've really meant something to their programming group. It's like he brings life to a particular model, that otherwise would amount to a basic no frills os.

And like someone else stated before, there's a slim to none chance that JJ will adopt a streamline os for the 5k. IMO, I don't see this ever happening.

dabmeister wrote:

Actually all of
And like someone else stated before, there's a slim to none chance that JJ will adopt a streamline os for the 5k. IMO, I don't see this ever happening.

I just dont see JJ bailing akai out if this 5000 mess...

In fact I am shocked akai didn't advertize the 5000 as being compatable with the JJOS

moyphee wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Actually all of the listed samplers (1000-2500 JJ /2000/3000) outperform the 5000 in the area of multisampling and keygroups.

This is not an accurate statement.

How so? They all support keygroups and the 2000/3000 support the industry standard S-1000 format. The 5000 does neither.

To clarify the statement- the 1000/2500 JJ handles keygroups and the 2000/3000 can access the s-1000 samples.

The 5000 still does neither.

And like someone else stated before, there's a slim to none chance that JJ will adopt a streamline os for the 5k. IMO, I don't see this ever happening.

A JJ OS for the 5K is not needed.

moyphee wrote:To clarify the statement- the 1000/2500 JJ handles keygroups and the 2000/3000 can access the s-1000 samples.

The 5000 still does neither.

So if the 5K could do both...would that make you happy?

surely that would be a great enhancement.
i dont see the point in nukai not implementing it from the start.
do they need a jj to put a so useful and necessary element in their new machines?

anyway jahrome, i cant see why you so motivated to advertise this 5k.
i think nobody is dissing it.

you seem to be pushin people to ignore the importance of a full fledged sampler.
you keep on asking things like "what a full sampler has that we dont" etc etc

either you dont know the basics of music production technology or you got paid from nukai.

a full featured sampler does three important things:

1-letz you record and organize takes from real instruments or other gear like synths and build easily with them a properly playng and responding sampled instrument.
2-letz you read and play third party programs and libraries, giving you access to real instruments and synths you shouldnt have elseway
3-letz you build your own virtual analog synth with your chosen waveforms, letz you layer different waveforms (treating samples like oscillators in a synth) and let you perform a gigantic variety of sound design tasks via his modulators (envelopes,lfos, assignements), his filters, his virtual vca's


do you think this is poor thing?
check the z-mminimoog that mcsmooth posted on the 4k forum:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55959&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

and tell me if your 5k with his dubious va synth can do something vaguely similar,
this multi is a wonderful simple example of what a 4k can do in the right hands! check the powerfullness,strenght and expressiveness of the sound and come back talkin.

hyena wrote:....i cant see why you so motivated to advertise this 5k.
i think nobody is dissing it.

you seem to be pushin people to ignore the importance of a full fledged sampler.
you keep on asking things like "what a full sampler has that we dont" etc etc

either you dont know the basics of music production technology or you got paid from nukai.

a full featured sampler does three important things:

1-letz you record and organize takes from real instruments or other gear like synths and build easily with them a properly playng and responding sampled instrument.
2-letz you read and play third party programs and libraries, giving you access to real instruments and synths you shouldnt have elseway
3-letz you build your own virtual analog synth with your chosen waveforms, letz you layer different waveforms (treating samples like oscillators in a synth) and let you perform a gigantic variety of sound design tasks via his modulators (envelopes,lfos, assignements), his filters, his virtual vca's


do you think this is poor thing?
check the z-mminimoog that mcsmooth posted on the 4k forum:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55959&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

and tell me if your 5k with his dubious va synth can do something vaguely similar,
this multi is a wonderful simple example of what a 4k can do in the right hands! check the powerfullness,strenght and expressiveness of the sound and come back talkin.

So what else is this forum for? It is to have open dialog about these machines whether people have the same opinions or not.

You are incorrect on all of your assumptions. I do know the basics of music production technology and I don't get paid by Akai. I am certainly not asking anyone to ignore keygroup samplers. I am just saying that an MPC doesn't really need a keygroup sampler built in (although I wouldn't mind having this function). The fact of that matter is hardware samplers died a long time ago. There is no 512MB hardware sampler (aka MPC 4000) that can compete with the power of a software sampler. Today, you have software samplers that you connect your favorite synth to..and it will create a velocity layered patch for you. Yes, believe that I know a little something about the many options musicians have today. This is why I point out that people need to look at what an MPC actually is....a MIDI sequencer. What do you think all those MIDI outputs on the back of the unit is for? Try connecting a limited keygroup hardware sampler or full featured software sampler (or even a Minimoog), and you have your basic music production technology.

Responding directly to your three important things...
1. A phrase sampler like the MP5K can do the same thing. You just have to tune the sample yourself. You only need to create one default program with tuned pads that you can use as a starting point for all your programs. Since the MP5K has 4 layers per sample pad that can be velocity switched as well as full ADSR amp/filter envelopes and an LFO..you can create an awesome instrument.
2. 3rd party libraries are great. A much better option than trying to sample and build your own patches as you wrote above. Many of these 3rd party libraries come in a VST format. MIDI them to any MPC and you are good to go.
3. Why waste time using a 512MB hardware sampler to do this?

To wrap this up...the MPC 4000 is the least popular MPC to date and the only one with a keygroup sampler that supports 3rd party libraries. Producers have been using the "inferior" MPCs for years which don't have keygroup samplers built in. How did they create great music without the basics of music production technology?

Askia Shaheed wrote:
the MPC 4000 is the least popular MPC to date and the only one with a keygroup sampler that supports 3rd party libraries. Producers have been using the "inferior" MPCs for years which don't have keygroup samplers built in. How did they create great music without the basics of music production technology?

This isn't in response to the 4k statement you made. But it is in response to what's being played here in the U.S. and what I hear being used.

There's more and more katz laying these keyboard parts down rather than sampling stuff. Or moreso, they're incorporating both to achieve a new level of "flavor in your ear type ish".

Keygroups are an integral part of this action, if you happen to own a complete sampler that's capable of this and not only studio worthy, but road worthy as well.

Us musicians do go out and provide live performances every now and then...you know what I mean?

dabmeister wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:
the MPC 4000 is the least popular MPC to date and the only one with a keygroup sampler that supports 3rd party libraries. Producers have been using the "inferior" MPCs for years which don't have keygroup samplers built in. How did they create great music without the basics of music production technology?

This isn't in response to the 4k statement you made. But it is in response to what's being played here in the U.S. and what I hear being used.

... except for the 808 samples.

To wrap this up...the MPC 4000 is the least popular MPC to date

This not true in any sence. In fact, the most unpopular MPCs to date both begin with 5 and are separated by a single 0.