Performing live w/ 4k.

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Performing live w/ 4k.

By Waystilos Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:13 pm
I know the post has been typed up before but I wanted to know if you guys who perform live with the 4k do the same thing as far as loading songs. I load all my multi's and load up the song and when that song is over, I switch multi's , delete the song, and load the new song. There has got to be an easier way. I guess I should make all my music on one multi and song eh?
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Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By dabmeister Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:30 pm
Waystilos wrote:I know the post has been typed up before but I wanted to know if you guys who perform live with the 4k do the same thing as far as loading songs. I load all my multi's and load up the song and when that song is over, I switch multi's , delete the song, and load the new song. There has got to be an easier way. I guess I should make all my music on one multi and song eh?


http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3345&hilit=using+the+mpc+4000+live+on+stage

Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By Waystilos Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:35 pm
dabmeister wrote:
Waystilos wrote:I know the post has been typed up before but I wanted to know if you guys who perform live with the 4k do the same thing as far as loading songs. I load all my multi's and load up the song and when that song is over, I switch multi's , delete the song, and load the new song. There has got to be an easier way. I guess I should make all my music on one multi and song eh?


http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3345&hilit=using+the+mpc+4000+live+on+stage
ah thanks dood. Didn't find that one.
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Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By feline1 Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:19 pm
that other old thread was rubbish ;-)

You don't need to change Multis manually -
you can program a 'multi change' command into the first bar of your song, so pressing PLAY START in Song mode will automatically select the correct multi.

For it to work,
you just need to give each multi its own number (which you do in the List page of Multi mode),
set the multis to listen to change messages on a particular channel (I use INT-B channel 1, and Bank Select messages to make the change),
and have a track in your song that is transmitting on INT-B channel 1.
In the "Program Change" block of the song's first sequence in Main mode,
press the orange WINDOW button and you can set whether to send Program Change and/or Bank Select messages.

Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By Waystilos Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:42 am
feline1 wrote:that other old thread was rubbish ;-)

You don't need to change Multis manually -
you can program a 'multi change' command into the first bar of your song, so pressing PLAY START in Song mode will automatically select the correct multi.

For it to work,
you just need to give each multi its own number (which you do in the List page of Multi mode),
set the multis to listen to change messages on a particular channel (I use INT-B channel 1, and Bank Select messages to make the change),
and have a track in your song that is transmitting on INT-B channel 1.
In the "Program Change" block of the song's first sequence in Main mode,
press the orange WINDOW button and you can set whether to send Program Change and/or Bank Select messages.
Thanks Feline. I feel more powerful performing live.
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Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By feline1 Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:11 am
Multi changes used to be "slow" and result in about half a second's silence/glitch whilst the multi changed.

They were improved on a later OS update eventually when a lot of us moaned -
however, I still wouldn't try changing Multi's at anything but the very start of a song, so there can be a little pause before it all begins.
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Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By McSmooth Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:45 pm
Here is another one from a while back:
viewtopic.php?t=4056

I was using an XL at the time, but most of the live concepts are the same for the multitimbral MPCs. 4k is the only one with multis. You can get all your programs into one multi, it just requires more work since you need to modify a separate live set multi every time you add or make a change to a track. If you play your stuff one song at a time, switching multis is much easier. I'm usually trying to blend different songs together and in that case, I find it easier to use one multi and use program changes (or INT routing) to grab needed program on demand.

You can only have one song loaded at a time, so you would have to reload each time if that is all you have to work with. I personally only use the song mode to combine sequences into a song ... then export back to a single sequence for the final track. I always hear people talking about song mode being buggy and not as responsive. I agree with sequence mode being more solid, so always make the conversion before recording. It also helps for live since a song then only takes up 1 of 128 slots. The only problem is it requires your track assignments are laid out the same. So if in half your sequences track 10 goes to a MIDI module and in the rest it is assigned to a drum program, you will have problems.

If you improvise at all, it helps to break up your presequenced tracks a little. An intro, outro and 1 to many loops or sequences in between gives you more flexibility.

Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By Waystilos Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:27 am
McSmooth wrote:Here is another one from a while back:
viewtopic.php?t=4056

I was using an XL at the time, but most of the live concepts are the same for the multitimbral MPCs. 4k is the only one with multis. You can get all your programs into one multi, it just requires more work since you need to modify a separate live set multi every time you add or make a change to a track. If you play your stuff one song at a time, switching multis is much easier. I'm usually trying to blend different songs together and in that case, I find it easier to use one multi and use program changes (or INT routing) to grab needed program on demand.

You can only have one song loaded at a time, so you would have to reload each time if that is all you have to work with. I personally only use the song mode to combine sequences into a song ... then export back to a single sequence for the final track. I always hear people talking about song mode being buggy and not as responsive. I agree with sequence mode being more solid, so always make the conversion before recording. It also helps for live since a song then only takes up 1 of 128 slots. The only problem is it requires your track assignments are laid out the same. So if in half your sequences track 10 goes to a MIDI module and in the rest it is assigned to a drum program, you will have problems.

If you improvise at all, it helps to break up your presequenced tracks a little. An intro, outro and 1 to many loops or sequences in between gives you more flexibility.
Word, that's some good knowledge to know. I tried to do the program change with the multi's and it worked but it was starting to get screwy with my sequences. I just put all my programs on one multi and put the sequences (and songs converted from those sequences) on there all at one time so I don't have to load anything during my set. The only thing that sucks is being limited to 6 qlink options but ah well. I need to experiment more with other ways to perform live with it. Thanks your help man.
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Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By McSmooth Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:44 pm
Waystilos wrote:Word, that's some good knowledge to know. I tried to do the program change with the multi's and it worked but it was starting to get screwy with my sequences. I just put all my programs on one multi and put the sequences (and songs converted from those sequences) on there all at one time so I don't have to load anything during my set. The only thing that sucks is being limited to 6 qlink options but ah well. I need to experiment more with other ways to perform live with it. Thanks your help man.

That's the way I do it, I'd rather load everything up beforehand. If you have the time to combine the programs into one multi, it can really help. It also sets you up well for a solution to the q-links: You can simply make copies of the one multi and each one can have different q-link and/or FX settings for you to change at will. Booyah!

Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By renegadebliss Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:20 pm
Waystilos wrote:Word, that's some good knowledge to know. I tried to do the program change with the multi's and it worked but it was starting to get screwy with my sequences. I just put all my programs on one multi and put the sequences (and songs converted from those sequences) on there all at one time so I don't have to load anything during my set. The only thing that sucks is being limited to 6 qlink options but ah well. I need to experiment more with other ways to perform live with it. Thanks your help man.



If at some point you want the other way, just follow the stepst that are outlined on page 4 of the newbie bible:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11725&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45

1. In "Multi" Page - give the Multi a Program number, but make sure it isn't a duplicate
of any others.

2. In a blank track, select for Int-A for your part (if that's what you setup Multi Program Change
to be made on)

3. In program change select "1" if that's the program number that you selected in step 1.

4. Now when you switch sequences, the sequence will send Program Change 1 on Int-A
which should change the Multi to 1 automatically.

Now do the same for your sequence 2 (which uses Multi 2 which is set for program change 2).

Now if you use "next sequence" or even "song" mode , when the sequence switches,
it will switch the Multi.

If you are using OS 1.7, then this switch will happen faster then before , and you won't hear
the audio glitches of the new sequence playing the Old Multi before the New Multi is switched.



*****

I've been using this method since 2003, it shouldn't do anything "screwy" with your sequences. If each Multi has a different program number, and each sequence is only doing 1 program change to change the multi you should be fine.

I've had it for my live set where I have around 40-50 multi's and around 40-50 sequences. And without fail, I go to "Next Sequence" hit the Sequence that I want it to go to, and it always changes the correct Multi. I've written in many forums, that the Akai Multi is actually a feature that Akai and their competitors have completely missed on the benefits of Multi's.

You can have completely different FX settings, Q-Link Settings,Programs and to be able to change that with every song/seq and even multiple times within a sequence (if that's what you want) is something that the current machines just don't have the ablity to do.

If only they had taken it 1 step further as I had suggested, and added a Multi Modulation Matrix, besides the Program Modulation Matrix that is available for the Programs...



But enjoy..

Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By Waystilos Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:27 am
thanks bliss and smooth. I performed with it last night and one of my songs triggered the wrong sounds and I made sure all the songs were proper at sound check so that was sketchy. Had to improv that one. I love it though, slaps A LOT harder than my laptop w/ableton.
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Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By McSmooth Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:28 am
Took me a while to get program changes down, and still make mistakes at times. Usually the problems come up if I test things from start to finish, but do not test bouncing to tracks in a different order or a track is muted with the change.

Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By Waystilos Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:18 pm
Word, the program change does work better for me. The problem that I had during the show was due to my midi rig. I wish I could do a program change with my ms2000 through my mp. Possible?
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Re: Performing live w/ 4k.

By McSmooth Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:51 pm
^ Of course, works the same way and REALLY helps out: have a track set to output to the correct midi port/channel and set the program change value. If you open window, you can also set the bank change. You can also insert bank/program changes manually anywhere in a sequence.
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