The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

moyphee wrote:

To wrap this up...the MPC 4000 is the least popular MPC to date

This not true in any sence. In fact, the most unpopular MPCs to date both begin with 5 and are separated by a single 0.

I have 20 issues of Scratch Magazine sitting next to me. Every issue has articles on numerous producers and what they use. The MPC 4000 was the least mentioned MPC for these hit producers. Based upon what these hit producers use, the MPC 4000 is the least popular MPC. In fact, there is a thread on this matter in the MPC 2500 forum.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

moyphee wrote:

To wrap this up...the MPC 4000 is the least popular MPC to date

This not true in any sence. In fact, the most unpopular MPCs to date both begin with 5 and are separated by a single 0.

I have 20 issues of Scratch Magazine sitting next to me. Every issue has articles on numerous producers and what they use. The MPC 4000 was the least mentioned MPC for these hit producers. Based upon what these hit producers use, the MPC 4000 is the least popular MPC. In fact, there is a thread on this matter in the MPC 2500 forum.

I somehow bet those same producers use the 4000 more then the 500. I just dont see studios being equiped with 500s. (I dont mean home studios)

I should clarify....The MPC 500 wasn't available at that time.

...maybe one of the Mods would consider doing an MPC thread (making it a sticky) to get a count of what everyone's primary MPC is. Getting a count would give us a voice on Capital Hill (aka Akai/Numark, JJ, Mansell Labs, Roger Linn..and anyone else doing MPC updates)....

Change the argument when the logic is overwhelming ha, ha, ha. Alot of users use 2xls or 3ks as professionals but that is not the point. This is a 4k vs 5k comparsion thread not who`s, who`s thread just a J mind trick again.

http://beatpress.wordpress.com/2008/01/ ... p-history/

You see mpcs are drum sampling sequencer meant to accompany keygroup samplers like the http://www.vintagesynth.com/akai/s900.shtml but alot of this understanding is lost to beatmakers thinking that a keyboard synth and mpc combo is a new phenomenon but it isn`t. The previous mpcs were meant to accompany keygroup samplers and they always have to add drums and sequence the basses, pianos, pads and everything else with the keygroup samplers. But the tread was to just use phrase samples and hits for loop based production so the keygroup samplers were use less just the phrase sampler within the mpc themselves. Also alot of cats switch up to a synth with the sound of swizz beats in the late 90s as a setup. Keygroup samplers can do the same job as a rom synth but this is fact is lost on most because the rom synth has been sound designed with amazing presets built in. But a little known fact is that most of the sounds were first designed with a sampler before installment in the rom synth. Anyway ex Akai got wise and tried to get ahead of group by incorporating its keygroup sampler line and it drum sampling sequencers line together and it was over the heads of most including myself at the time.

Without understanding of the whys, whens and what of the difference between a loop, hit, and a multisample the technology can go over the heads of anyone.

Loops are phrase sampling.

Hits are drum and phrase sampling.

Multisamples are in context for designing your own realistic instruments the purpose of original sampling using a keygroup sampler.


The 4k does all.


Back to the thread 4k is essentially a powerful synth in which one can add their own sounds just like the pros have access to in a pro studio. The 5k is rom synth based on the fusion engine with a set range of waveforms with a phrase sampler.

Still goes to the original premise of any mpc it can accompli any sampler, synth be it hardware or software and get the job done.

Just the 4k was Ex-Akai`s reach to combine the worlds of both.


The 5k seems like Nuakai purpose again to combine the synths/mpc combo like motif/mpc, roland/mpc treads of today but the thing I think would have taken it to the next level would have been of course a keygroup sampler like the Fusion/MPC fusion but like Jah said maybe that is the 6000. From previous posts the 5k was designed as the 3500 originally but everything ain`t what it is all wrapped up to be blame marketing.

Not changing the subject...just expanding on the same/related topics. This is an MPC 4000 vs 5000 thread. It is relevant to note that the MPC 4000 is the least sought after MPC even with all the features it has. Outside of the 4000, the MPC 5K is by far superior to any other MPC..period. The others are not even close. What the MPC 5000 did was maintain the same workflow as the previous models but add significant improvements. This is where the MPC 4000 failed. It added numerous features but they were poorly implemented (my opinion). Look at how JJ added keygroup programs (aka Instrument Programs). You can quickly create one of these programs and easily assign it to a track just like a typical sample program. This is how the MPC 4000 should work. It has nothing to do with going over someones head. As Blue Haze pointed out, people were already using keygroup samplers MIDI'd to their MPC. Implementation of functions is the most important aspect of the workflow of MPCs. The MPC 4000 does it all...in the wrong way.

Multi-samples and keygroups. I know people have got to be sick of hearing those words. Samplers that can support commerical libraries of ready made instruments are great. But outside of this, you can still create your own multi-sample instruments using any of these new MPCs. Realism? You still get 4 velocity layers of samples per pad. Are 4 velocity layers not enough for an instrument? Not all keygroup samplers can put several keygroup porgrams into a multi. Does not having this feature make other standalone hardware samplers obsolete? You have people saying hardware keygroup samplers have been obsolete for many years now. No company makes dedicated hardware samplers anymore. The Z8 was probably the last hardware sampler created. And you see how that turned out...

Today, I seriously doubt any MPC user with some knowledge will think they are on some next level-ish when they use a keyboard workstation alongside their MPC. Using an MPC with a keyboard or sound module has been clearly defined in the users/operating manuals for over 20 years. With the addition of software samplers, you can expand on this decades old technique.

Blue Haze, you gave incorrect info regarding the MPC 5000, which is what happen when you don't fully understand a product. It is not a ROM synth. It uses subtractive synthesis. Oscillators generate raw sounds. These are then fed to filters, amps, envelopes, etc. As far as a set range of waveforms....analog synths typically have sine, sawtooth, square, triangle, pulse/rectangle, and Noise. The 5K has all of these. The MP5K can be improved to include different synthesis types and digital waveforms...but as of today, no other MPC or MPC-clone has these functions.

Let's face reality for a second. Akai has obviously made the MPC 5000 more powerful than the 1000 and 2500. JJ has added a keygroup type of sampler to those MPCs with just a software update. If Akai really believes this is a feature that most MPC users want (which I don't believe based upon the popularity of the 4000), they would probably consider adding this function. And even if they do add this feature, many of you will still be saying that its not enough.

Words of advice from a vet. If you want an MPC 4000...wait for a month or so. They are cheap now, and will be even cheaper when Akai starts adding user feature requests to the 5K as they indicated in the owners manual (have you seen the requests we made here in the forum?). If you want an MPC 5000, you should probably invest now before the price goes up

If you are sick of hearing multisamples and keygroup programs maybe the problem is you. The MPC 5k synth is ROM based in the fact you cannot add more waves to the synth, can you???? Period is a state of mind and your opinion is that every mpc you buy as a collector is the best period without understanding all the features. You have a Roland workstation it is a multsample keygroup sampler also how on earth could it layer the combinations like it does.

The MPC 4k never failed alot of uninformed users did, but don`t blame the gear designed to incorporate keygroup sampling and drum sampling all in one cuz it is easily done with the ability to learn a way of working. The features based on the S5000 is fanstatic once you got your mind deprogrammed from just phrase sampling to what a studio sampler does do history. I had a 1k before and I understand JJ`s work but it not at the level of a 4k. Multis is the key to the every Keygroup sampler since the S3000 days and it is a wonderful thing to layout the keygroups over the entire keyboards if you wish and sound design. Yes it may be over alot of uninformed heads playing follow the leader, but the same any sampler works it assign a channel to the program and then assign the program to the output of a track the RIGHT WAY.

Like I said before to some with the phrase drum mentality you assign a keygroup sampler to keyboard not just pads and layer multiple programs with the same channels.


It is simple back in the day a musician would midi several to 8 synths from one master keyboard controller together to layer the sounds of each then he would have to tweak all the knobs on the different keyboards to get an customized sounds of his own since he could not play all of the boards himself.


The concept of the 4k is the same 8 to 128 synths aka (programs within a Multi) controlled by one master controller but the catch is you can control all of the synths with Program Matrix (knobs, pedals, LFOS, ENVs and the works) from one master controller real time morphing the sounds. The qlink on the 4k is an added plus. Need I say more.....

Next level-ish isn`t from having the same workstation keyboard as the next man or a drum sequencer with build in rom synth and phrase sampler. It is how you can manipulate the sounds you put in it to make it yours just like a synth.
Previous mpcs were used for accompanying studio samplers, synths and sound modules as well as the main sequencers. The 4k can do all of these things in the box.



And lastly yes Jah Oscillators generate raw sounds will a set range get it set range of waveforms. The more advanced synths have waveformable which can go up into the hundreds of waveforms combined and blend plus have real sounds layered under them. But the limitation is the waveforms are set and you can not add your own because it is in Read Onlly Memory lock never changing for all time. A sampler is Random Access Memory is you can put in and take out whatever you want as much as you want from any synths old or new like a Moog sine wave with Motif triangles, and a Fart layered for bottom if you wish with Ram having larger capacities have roms.

Lastly if you want to be a collector buy the lastest and the greatest and then at some time later get rid of it when the next gear drops in fall 2009 never truely understanding exactly what does a sampler does??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampler_(m ... instrument)

This is how Multi aka combination and instruments (programs) are to work in a keygroup sampler like the 4k.

A good example to understanding

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=48oQmNlN818


http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=9NwiDu9nz8s

This is a Multi and what multis do on a 4k.

Blue Haze wrote:If you are sick of hearing multisamples and keygroup programs maybe the problem is you.

Since I own/use both hardware and software keygroup samplers...I am not amazed. I will let you be the one to continue to talk about how great that is in a piece of hardware even though you know the 4K cannot compete with software. You need to de-program yourself and admit that the 4K as a keygroup sampler is very ordinary. You can talk about specs all you want (like me...) but let’s hear what you are doing with it.

Blue Haze wrote:The MPC 5k synth is ROM based in the fact you cannot add more waves to the synth, can you???? Period is a state of mind and your opinion is that every mpc you buy as a collector is the best period without understanding all the features.

You don't seem to understand what a synth is. Talking around the subject does you no good. You can do a search on the internet to gain a better understanding. You can start here: http://www.beatportal.com/feed/item/osc ... waveforms/.

An analog-style synth (like an advanced synth such as a Moog) has about 6 waveforms (as I wrote earlier) to generate sounds....just like the MPC 5K, the only MPC that has this function. A synth is not "limited' as you wrote. Thousands of sounds can be generated by those 6 waveforms and the host of different parameters to tweak.

A Rompler does not generate sounds the same way a synth does. A Rompler is filled with sampled waveforms (stored in ROM) that typically range in the hundreds. These sounds are recordings of real analog synths or other musical instruments. No MPC is a Rompler like a Fantom. These waveforms are added together to make new sounds. MPCs are Samplers (sounds temporarily stored in RAM) which captures audio. They can record the same audio a Rompler has but you must save it because all is lost once the machine is turned off.

I like how you slid the collector comment in there. This collector will more than hold his own against any "musician' here in the forum. But let's keep this about MPCs (for a change). Akai has released the MPC 500, 1000, 2500, and now the 5000 over the past 6 years. The MPC 500 has the least amount of features...the 5K has the most. The MPC 5000 is indeed the best MPC on the planet whether I bought it or not.

Blue Haze wrote: You have a Roland workstation it is a multsample keygroup sampler also how on earth could it layer the combinations like it does.

The Fantom G is a Rompler/sampler that didn't support multisamples when it was released months ago. It received an OS update to add this.

Blue Haze wrote:The MPC 4k never failed alot of uninformed users did, but don`t blame the gear designed to incorporate keygroup sampling and drum sampling all in one cuz it is easily done with the ability to learn a way of working.

You can make the argument that people slept on the MPC 4000 and Z series samplers as much as you like. But the products failed to deliver...Akai quickly stop supporting them...and they starting selling them at a lost. Stores were practically giving away the Z4 and Z8.

Blue Haze wrote:Yes it may be over alot of uninformed heads playing follow the leader, but the same any sampler works it assign a channel to the program and then assign the program to the output of a track the RIGHT WAY.

There is no one right way. But the MPC way is....select a track, assign program (synth/sample/instrument) to track. That is all. You are ready to record. No unnecessary steps. This is how the MPC 4000 should behave. Since a keygroup can span an entire keyboard, assign the instruments you want to layer to their own keygroup..assigned to the same range. Now you have your multilayer instrument within a keygroup program. That is how an MPC should work if it is going to have this function.

Blue Haze wrote:Next level-ish....is how you can manipulate the sounds you put in it to make it yours...

I agree 100%. I do that with an MPC 5000 all day..everyday.

Blue Haze wrote:Lastly if you want to be a collector buy the lastest and the greatest and then at some time later get rid of it when the next gear drops in fall 2009 never truely understanding exactly what does a sampler does??

Sounds like jealousy for some odd reason. I don't think I have to justify my purchases to you. But I will say that I used the MPC 2500 faithfully for 3 years. I know this unit inside out. (If I recall correctly, you hated on that MPC too.) Today, I moved on up to the MPC 5000 which does exactly what the MPC 2500 did and even more. Why should I have stayed with a 2500? You are correct that I am still trying to understand the 5Ks full capabilities...it really does so much. I will continue to use the MPC 5000 until the MPC 5000XL or 6000 drops in 2010-2012. Also, I am about to upgrade to Pro Tools 8....I hope you will not lecture me about not fully understanding what I have in Pro Tools 7

" Outside of the 4000, the MPC 5K is by far superior to any other MPC..period. "

Keyword: Other.


the 5000 is not superior to the 4000, end of the discussion. lol.


5000 is a 2500 basically, because the synth is feeble.

It is obvious what a 4k can do so I will rest with these videos. And it is clear about the power of a sampler.

To the curious check out pages 13-14 of the 5k manual and it basic explains what the 5k can do.

Blue Haze wrote:This is how Multi aka combination and instruments (programs) are to work in a keygroup sampler like the 4k.

A good example to understanding

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=48oQmNlN818


http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=9NwiDu9nz8s

This is a Multi and what multis do on a 4k.

p://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=VmcqmJJf7-0&feature=related

Is this how you guys debate? When someone mentions that the MPC 5000 has a 20 voice synth, hard disk recording w/ import/export functions as well as mixdown, continuous sample tracks, better track/pad mute operations, better swing parameters, better undo/redo functions, better Q-link integration, better effects implementation, Chop Shop w/ auto slice, standard 10 analog and ADAT outputs, CD audio burning, sequencer operational in every mode, Arp for each track, 32 channel multi-timbral mode to use it as a sound module, CF reader/writer standard, 4 sample layers per pad with velocity/cycle/random switching, full ADSR envelope support, improved filters, a more streamlined interface, etc...you quickly point out that you don't need these features and suggest that you would rather use a dedicate external module for one or more of these features. But as soon as someone suggest that the MPC 5000 doesn't need a keygroup sampler because you can get a cheap Z 4 or Z8...or better yet, a software based one that is far superior to an MPC 4000...you are outraged

The truth is....there is only one reason why I have continued to chat with you gentleman all these months and a dozen pages long:

Winter NAMM 2009 is the place to be for the latest news and about what Akai Professional's development team has been cooking up. Watch this space for detailed news, pictures and videos when the show floor opens January 15, 2009.

Happy Holidays! I have a ham, collard greens, mac & cheese, yams, green beans, and a few cakes I have to cook/bake since mom missed her flight to Japan.

LOL...Jahrome, what do you know about putting down some southern soul in the orient? Don't disapoint your mom. And tell her a few guys from the forum said hi.

Is this how you guys debate?

It's not a debate when someone jumps the subject or flees when cornered.

If the 5000 was adequate without multi-sampling you wouldn't have tried so hard to reproduce manually. Spending more money because of a crippled feature set is indeed outrageous.

So the simple solution is to buy the:

MPC-5000-$2500
Memory- $150
CD drive - $200
Z Series sampler - $600>1000 (if you can find one)

S/H and/or tax

= minimum $3600 (buggy OS included)

No thanks!

Happy Holidays to you too Jah and everyone also. It is what is it is. 4k can do wonders. See ya in 2009 or before.

Blue Haze wrote:Change the argument when the logic is overwhelming ha, ha, ha. Alot of users use 2xls or 3ks as professionals but that is not the point. This is a 4k vs 5k comparsion thread not who`s, who`s thread just a J mind trick again.

http://beatpress.wordpress.com/2008/01/ ... p-history/

You see mpcs are drum sampling sequencer meant to accompany keygroup samplers like the http://www.vintagesynth.com/akai/s900.shtml but alot of this understanding is lost to beatmakers thinking that a keyboard synth and mpc combo is a new phenomenon but it isn`t. The previous mpcs were meant to accompany keygroup samplers and they always have to add drums and sequence the basses, pianos, pads and everything else with the keygroup samplers. But the tread was to just use phrase samples and hits for loop based production so the keygroup samplers were use less just the phrase sampler within the mpc themselves. Also alot of cats switch up to a synth with the sound of swizz beats in the late 90s as a setup. Keygroup samplers can do the same job as a rom synth but this is fact is lost on most because the rom synth has been sound designed with amazing presets built in. But a little known fact is that most of the sounds were first designed with a sampler before installment in the rom synth. Anyway ex Akai got wise and tried to get ahead of group by incorporating its keygroup sampler line and it drum sampling sequencers line together and it was over the heads of most including myself at the time.

Without understanding of the whys, whens and what of the difference between a loop, hit, and a multisample the technology can go over the heads of anyone.

Loops are phrase sampling.

Hits are drum and phrase sampling.

Multisamples are in context for designing your own realistic instruments the purpose of original sampling using a keygroup sampler.


The 4k does all.


Back to the thread 4k is essentially a powerful synth in which one can add their own sounds just like the pros have access to in a pro studio. The 5k is rom synth based on the fusion engine with a set range of waveforms with a phrase sampler.

Still goes to the original premise of any mpc it can accompli any sampler, synth be it hardware or software and get the job done.

Just the 4k was Ex-Akai`s reach to combine the worlds of both.


The 5k seems like Nuakai purpose again to combine the synths/mpc combo like motif/mpc, roland/mpc treads of today but the thing I think would have taken it to the next level would have been of course a keygroup sampler like the Fusion/MPC fusion but like Jah said maybe that is the 6000. From previous posts the 5k was designed as the 3500 originally but everything ain`t what it is all wrapped up to be blame marketing.

Face the music 4k+ and 5k? but it is up to the user to make music.